ls1-ls6 intake flow comparisons with absolute stg 2 heads
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On The Tree
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 116
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From: new york
ls1-ls6 intake flow comparisons with absolute stg 2 heads we have been getting alot of questions on intake flow with ls6 intake attached, every one feels the intakes are restrictive and could only flow a certain amount, this is false, Yes you will get a drop in flow with it attached compared to a radiused inlet, the restriction comes from both the intake and the head were the two meet at the floor of the runners, it causes a no flow area, the ls6 intake was revised by lowering the floor to give the floor of the runner a better approach to the floor of the head, this reduces the no flow or dead zone and improves flow, there are tricks to porting the short turn radius that also will reduce the dead zone and improve flow, there is no limit to the intake, the rate of flow loss is progressive and differs from one porters work to another, below I listed flow from our absolute speed stg2 ls1 port's with a radiused inlet, ls1 intake, and ls6 intake. port volume is 209cc's, 2.02 valve
Radiused-ls1- ls6
200-159 -157- 159
300-217 -195- 212
400-272 -236- 259
450-288 -249- 274
500-297 -264- 288
550-304 -270- 292
600-309 -273- 294
Radiused-ls1- ls6
200-159 -157- 159
300-217 -195- 212
400-272 -236- 259
450-288 -249- 274
500-297 -264- 288
550-304 -270- 292
600-309 -273- 294
Re: ls1-ls6 intake flow comparisons with absolute stg 2 heads Great write up. I can't wait until mine get here... Who's heads did you use for those flow numbers? I wish they were mine...
Mark
Mark
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,060
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From: MI
Re: ls1-ls6 intake flow comparisons with absolute stg 2 heads </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 2001 Pewter WS6:
<strong> Great write up. I can't wait until mine get here... Who's heads did you use for those flow numbers? I wish they were mine...
Mark </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, I'm sure they are mine <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
<strong> Great write up. I can't wait until mine get here... Who's heads did you use for those flow numbers? I wish they were mine...
Mark </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, I'm sure they are mine <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
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Verdad Gallardo Re: ls1-ls6 intake flow comparisons with absolute stg 2 heads Here's the flow data my TEA 5.3's gave with the LS1 & LS6 intakes in place.
TEA Lift LS1 LS6
.100 65.14 65.6
.200 133.1 133.5
.300 184.3 189.9
.400 217.1 227.75
.450 229.2 241.3
.500 236.3 250.2
.550 236.3 247.5
.600 235.7 245.18
TEA Lift LS1 LS6
.100 65.14 65.6
.200 133.1 133.5
.300 184.3 189.9
.400 217.1 227.75
.450 229.2 241.3
.500 236.3 250.2
.550 236.3 247.5
.600 235.7 245.18
Re: ls1-ls6 intake flow comparisons with absolute stg 2 heads Additional flow data
With Manifolds:
Cylinder Head Intake Manifold.......................... .200" .300" .350" .400" .450" .500" .550" .600"
My TEA 5.3's LS1...................133.. 184... na....217... 229.. 236.. 236... 235
Stock LS1 LS1.......................136.. 184... 200 .214... 222.. 227.. 229... 235
Stock LS1 LS6.......................136.. 186... 206. 223 ...227.. 236.. 241... 242
My TEA 5.3's LS6....................133.. 189.... na 227... 241 ..250.. 247... 245
Stock LS6 LS1........................156.. 199... 212.. 224.. 232.. 238 ...243 ...247
Stock LS6 LS6........................154.. 204... 220.. 235.. 247.. 257... 263... 265
Ported LS1** LS1...................141.. 185... 205.. 222.. 232.. 241... 251... 258
My TEA 5.3's LS6...................133... 189... na.....227.. 241.. 250... 247... 245
Ported LS1** LS6.. ................166... 211.. 229.. 244... 257.. 269... 277.. 283
Ported LS6 LS1.......................156... 199 ..217 ..230.. 242 ...253 ..263 ..268
Ported LS6 LS6.......................153 ...202 ..222 ..241... 257 ..270 ..280 ...289
* Original Stage II heads from New Dog, Old Tricks; GMHTP May/July 2000
** Latest revision.
My TEA's were flow on a different bench but the stall points still seem pretty low. Lower than stock actually. TEA insisted I got exactly the same port as very one else. Even if the flow data between bench differs by ~15 cfm the stall points stand out.
With Manifolds:
Cylinder Head Intake Manifold.......................... .200" .300" .350" .400" .450" .500" .550" .600"
My TEA 5.3's LS1...................133.. 184... na....217... 229.. 236.. 236... 235
Stock LS1 LS1.......................136.. 184... 200 .214... 222.. 227.. 229... 235
Stock LS1 LS6.......................136.. 186... 206. 223 ...227.. 236.. 241... 242
My TEA 5.3's LS6....................133.. 189.... na 227... 241 ..250.. 247... 245
Stock LS6 LS1........................156.. 199... 212.. 224.. 232.. 238 ...243 ...247
Stock LS6 LS6........................154.. 204... 220.. 235.. 247.. 257... 263... 265
Ported LS1** LS1...................141.. 185... 205.. 222.. 232.. 241... 251... 258
My TEA 5.3's LS6...................133... 189... na.....227.. 241.. 250... 247... 245
Ported LS1** LS6.. ................166... 211.. 229.. 244... 257.. 269... 277.. 283
Ported LS6 LS1.......................156... 199 ..217 ..230.. 242 ...253 ..263 ..268
Ported LS6 LS6.......................153 ...202 ..222 ..241... 257 ..270 ..280 ...289
* Original Stage II heads from New Dog, Old Tricks; GMHTP May/July 2000
** Latest revision.
My TEA's were flow on a different bench but the stall points still seem pretty low. Lower than stock actually. TEA insisted I got exactly the same port as very one else. Even if the flow data between bench differs by ~15 cfm the stall points stand out.
Re: ls1-ls6 intake flow comparisons with absolute stg 2 heads Jay does take his port work very serious,he is always looking to get as little as 2 or 3 cfm more out of it.Seat cuts,valve cuts,valve brands,valve sizes,stock valve seat vs larger valve seat[machine work a must],all done to get the customers the best money can buy.
Jay,dont get PO'ed about me posting this ,I know I look like a Homer but you are too modest to ever post up ALL your R&D.
Jay,dont get PO'ed about me posting this ,I know I look like a Homer but you are too modest to ever post up ALL your R&D.
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: L.I. NY
Re: ls1-ls6 intake flow comparisons with absolute stg 2 heads Here is most most updated flows and flows with intake attached on my new superflow sf 660s flow bench. My old bench was an older flow data bench that becuase of its lamnar flow element reads higher and will not detect turbulance like the superflow. Also with the new superflow with flow com, I can read leakage accuratly down to the tenth of a cfm, Flow data benches can not read leakage.
ls1 head flowed on supeerflow sf600s, 28 inches, 3.9 bore
lift-radius-ls6 intake
200-151-147
300-205-198
400-254-238
450-272-253
500-288-268
550-299-277
600-306-281
These are average flow readings, some heads will read a bit higher 2-3 cfm some a bit lower 2-3 cfm. The one thing I dont want to see from a head is stalling before the cams max lift then falling off and going backwards
One thing people have to keep in mind is every flow bench is different and the way it can be flowed can be different. It is important to look at the way the head is set on an ls1 block with no piston in it. If the head is set up the same way on the test bore with the ls6 intake and rocker bolt attached, then you will see how it will flow on the eng. I can get up to 5 cfm more If I flowed the head favoring the intake side of the chamber or flowing centered on a 4 inch bore. There are some other factors that play in but I dont want to let the cat out of the bag. Jfm is right, I am always trying new things and finding new ways to get more out of the heads, this is the main reason why I wont get my heads cnc'ed, the development will stop, Time will stand still and there will be no advances in porting tecnology.
Look for some results from my stg2.5 heads with the 2.040 intake valve, the reason why Im making this head is for its flows with the intake attached and to get the flow past .600 lift on ls1 heads, the 2.02 has a hard time going past .600 through the ls6 intake
ls1 head flowed on supeerflow sf600s, 28 inches, 3.9 bore
lift-radius-ls6 intake
200-151-147
300-205-198
400-254-238
450-272-253
500-288-268
550-299-277
600-306-281
These are average flow readings, some heads will read a bit higher 2-3 cfm some a bit lower 2-3 cfm. The one thing I dont want to see from a head is stalling before the cams max lift then falling off and going backwards
One thing people have to keep in mind is every flow bench is different and the way it can be flowed can be different. It is important to look at the way the head is set on an ls1 block with no piston in it. If the head is set up the same way on the test bore with the ls6 intake and rocker bolt attached, then you will see how it will flow on the eng. I can get up to 5 cfm more If I flowed the head favoring the intake side of the chamber or flowing centered on a 4 inch bore. There are some other factors that play in but I dont want to let the cat out of the bag. Jfm is right, I am always trying new things and finding new ways to get more out of the heads, this is the main reason why I wont get my heads cnc'ed, the development will stop, Time will stand still and there will be no advances in porting tecnology.
Look for some results from my stg2.5 heads with the 2.040 intake valve, the reason why Im making this head is for its flows with the intake attached and to get the flow past .600 lift on ls1 heads, the 2.02 has a hard time going past .600 through the ls6 intake
Re: ls1-ls6 intake flow comparisons with absolute stg 2 heads Jay, you said the way to help relieve the stall issue is to lower the floor on the intake, are you using a modified intake for your flow numbers? I am by no way bashing or questioning your heads, I am just trying to figure all of these little secrest out.
Charlie.
Charlie.
Teching In
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 46
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From: L.I. NY
Re: ls1-ls6 intake flow comparisons with absolute stg 2 heads The secrets are in the heads and porting, the ls6 intake is untouched. The 5.3l intake port flows exactly the same as the ls1 port through an ls6 intake.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
From: Bowling Green, KY
Re: ls1-ls6 intake flow comparisons with absolute stg 2 heads "lamnar flow element reads higher and will not detect turbulance like the superflow"
The top people in the country use the Meriam Instruments Laminar flow element in their flow benches, such as GM (Chevrolet division), Warren Johnson, Dick Maskin (Dart), GTP, TEA, etc... The only disadvantage to a LFE bench is the higher cost. Ours does not read higher then Superflows, many people heads have flowed more on Superflow benches then ours.
"Flow data benches can not read leakage"
Yes FlowData benches can read leakage....once bolted on the bench with all intended orifices closed we turn the bench on and pull it to 28 inches to check the seal.... If there is any leakage, it is recorded in the Audie Technology Flowpro software, which controls 100% of the flowbench operation, and is compensated for. Just thought everyone should know.
Brian Tooley
The top people in the country use the Meriam Instruments Laminar flow element in their flow benches, such as GM (Chevrolet division), Warren Johnson, Dick Maskin (Dart), GTP, TEA, etc... The only disadvantage to a LFE bench is the higher cost. Ours does not read higher then Superflows, many people heads have flowed more on Superflow benches then ours.
"Flow data benches can not read leakage"
Yes FlowData benches can read leakage....once bolted on the bench with all intended orifices closed we turn the bench on and pull it to 28 inches to check the seal.... If there is any leakage, it is recorded in the Audie Technology Flowpro software, which controls 100% of the flowbench operation, and is compensated for. Just thought everyone should know.
Brian Tooley
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
From: bronx ny
Re: ls1-ls6 intake flow comparisons with absolute stg 2 heads
"lamnar flow element reads higher and will not detect turbulance like the superflow"
The top people in the country use the Meriam Instruments Laminar flow element in their flow benches, such as GM (Chevrolet division), Warren Johnson, Dick Maskin (Dart), GTP, TEA, etc... The only disadvantage to a LFE bench is the higher cost. Ours does not read higher then Superflows, many people heads have flowed more on Superflow benches then ours.
"Flow data benches can not read leakage"
Yes FlowData benches can read leakage....once bolted on the bench with all intended orifices closed we turn the bench on and pull it to 28 inches to check the seal.... If there is any leakage, it is recorded in the Audie Technology Flowpro software, which controls 100% of the flowbench operation, and is compensated for. Just thought everyone should know.
Brian Tooley
The top people in the country use the Meriam Instruments Laminar flow element in their flow benches, such as GM (Chevrolet division), Warren Johnson, Dick Maskin (Dart), GTP, TEA, etc... The only disadvantage to a LFE bench is the higher cost. Ours does not read higher then Superflows, many people heads have flowed more on Superflow benches then ours.
"Flow data benches can not read leakage"
Yes FlowData benches can read leakage....once bolted on the bench with all intended orifices closed we turn the bench on and pull it to 28 inches to check the seal.... If there is any leakage, it is recorded in the Audie Technology Flowpro software, which controls 100% of the flowbench operation, and is compensated for. Just thought everyone should know.
Brian Tooley
Im not going to say anything
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BLK00TA
Staging Lane
Reged: 03/19/02
Posts: 102
Re: TEA 5.3L heads are here, flow #'s inside
#537392 - 05/24/03 11:11 AM
I HAVE SET OF TEA 5.3 STAGE 1.5 HEADS AND I HAD THEM FLOWED ON A SUPERFLOW AND AT 550 LIFT THEY ONLY FLOWED 275 INTAKE AND 197 EXHAUST AND AT 600 LIFT THE INTAKE DROPPED TO 260 FLOW.WHATS UP WITH THAT.IS THIS NORMAL FOR A INDEPENDANT BENCH OR DID I GET SCREWED ON THE HEADS.
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