Rocker Arm Problem
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 45
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From: las vegas
Rocker Arm Problem For the last year I have been battling oil consumption issues and random detonation issues on my Combination Motorsports built 408. The car initially ran great and has slowly and progressively gotten worse over time--6000 miles since my new motor was installed. Well, tonight I pulled my driver's side valve cover and noticed that one of the rocker arms on cylinder #7 is sunken into my retainer and another appears to be somewhat mushroomed.
Being a fairly unexperienced mechanic myself, can anyone with some experience please tell me what you think is wrong here......
Please forgive me if the images do not post as I have never attached a jpg file before when posting.....thanks!
Being a fairly unexperienced mechanic myself, can anyone with some experience please tell me what you think is wrong here......
Please forgive me if the images do not post as I have never attached a jpg file before when posting.....thanks!
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: las vegas
FYI,
the last pic is of another rocker on cylinder 5 just to emphasize the fact that you can see the top of the valve on that retainer and not on the one on cylinder #7.
....does this look like the valve train was not set up properly? Will the heads have to come off??? I have not yet taken the passenger side valve cover off, but will do so soon.
...For the $12000 that I have in the engine alone I am praying that this issue gets resolved!!!
Thanks in advance for your responses!
the last pic is of another rocker on cylinder 5 just to emphasize the fact that you can see the top of the valve on that retainer and not on the one on cylinder #7.
....does this look like the valve train was not set up properly? Will the heads have to come off??? I have not yet taken the passenger side valve cover off, but will do so soon.
...For the $12000 that I have in the engine alone I am praying that this issue gets resolved!!!
Thanks in advance for your responses!
Added spring pressure (assuming...) and xtra lift (assuming again....) must have been too much for the stock rockers. Time for roller tips. As long as the valve stems are OK heads do not have to be removed. I might be concerned about your oil pressure also.
Because the stock rockers are very good pieces. I'd say there is something wrong, but not from added spring pressures, nor just because they are oem rockers. I think something was set up wrong, or you hit coil bind on those springs, (which I highly doubt it) I can't really tell what's wrong, I'm sure someone else has seen this before and can comment.
I have to disagree, compared to stock sbc rockers they are better, if I spent 12 Gs for a built motor, oem rockers which have a well documented reputation for coming apart and spreading needle bearings throughout the engine in stock applications wouldn't be a choice at all....
The second picture looks like the tip of the rocker arm is pushing over the edge of the valve stem. Is that actually how it is??
If thats the case, I can see what it would be mushrooming the stem.
What kind of heads are these?
If thats the case, I can see what it would be mushrooming the stem.
What kind of heads are these?
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: las vegas
Actually it appears to look like the valve itself has moved down within the retainer???? However, when I did a compression test on that head all cylinders were within 5 psi of each other...??
This must have happened to someone else with a high lift cam before?? Could I have a bad lifter?? They are supposed to be the comp cam R lifters I believe.
This must have happened to someone else with a high lift cam before?? Could I have a bad lifter?? They are supposed to be the comp cam R lifters I believe.
TECH Veteran
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,055
Likes: 1
From: Hartsdale, NY
It looks to me like the valve stem "keeper" is pushing its way past the valve spring retainer.
I've never seen this before. You have double springs like I do. Do you know if they are titanium retainiers or regualr steel retainers? Who made the valve springs - REV?
A far as the stock rockers are concerned, I would not use them in a high-end motor. I used YTs and they only cost $500. That said, I don't beleive the stock rocker tip is bending.
Since you paid a TON of dough for the engine, have them look at it IMMEDIATLY. If the shop is near your house - have it towed.
SINCE THE MOTOR IS STILL IN ONE PEICE, I WOULD NOT DRIVE IT SINCE YOU COULD EASILY DROP A VALVE. THIS WOULD CRATER THE SMALL BLOCK AND HEAD. YOUR $12k MOTOR IS NOW A $0K MOTOR....
If the shop won;t deal with your issue, take the rocker arm off and inspect the damage. At least you will confirm that it is either:
1, the valve spring retainer,
2. valve keeper,
3. valve or
4. rocker arm
CONSIDER YOURSELF VERY LUCKY THAT YOU HAVE CAUGHT THE PROBLEM BEFORE IT DESTROYED YOUR ENGINE. DONT DRIVE THIS CAR!
I've never seen this before. You have double springs like I do. Do you know if they are titanium retainiers or regualr steel retainers? Who made the valve springs - REV?
A far as the stock rockers are concerned, I would not use them in a high-end motor. I used YTs and they only cost $500. That said, I don't beleive the stock rocker tip is bending.
Since you paid a TON of dough for the engine, have them look at it IMMEDIATLY. If the shop is near your house - have it towed.
SINCE THE MOTOR IS STILL IN ONE PEICE, I WOULD NOT DRIVE IT SINCE YOU COULD EASILY DROP A VALVE. THIS WOULD CRATER THE SMALL BLOCK AND HEAD. YOUR $12k MOTOR IS NOW A $0K MOTOR....
If the shop won;t deal with your issue, take the rocker arm off and inspect the damage. At least you will confirm that it is either:
1, the valve spring retainer,
2. valve keeper,
3. valve or
4. rocker arm
CONSIDER YOURSELF VERY LUCKY THAT YOU HAVE CAUGHT THE PROBLEM BEFORE IT DESTROYED YOUR ENGINE. DONT DRIVE THIS CAR!
Originally Posted by robertbartsch
It looks to me like the valve stem "keeper" is pushing its way past the valve spring retainer.
Originally Posted by oange ss
looks like the retainer is upside down, dont ask how but that's what it looks like from the pics
John
Like others said, either they ran out of the right retainers and just slapped a random one on that would somewhat work, or your dual springs are pulling the keepers and valve down into the retainer. Get a new set of retainers and just replace them and hopefully that will solve the problem. If you can get the old ones off that is!!!
The picture isn't all that clear, but this makes the case for a set of roller tip rockers. You would think that would have been included in a 12K build. If the keepers somehow managed to get past their retainers those parts would be everywhere by now. Hopefully in the pan if you're lucky.
TECH Veteran
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,055
Likes: 1
From: Hartsdale, NY
This is WILD!
DON'T DRIVE THIS CAR - IT IS LIKELY TO DROP A VALVE THAT WILL CRATER THE ENGINE
If the mutts who built it refuse to help, order a complete set (16) of replacement retainiers (preferably titanium for a $12K engine) that match the spring set and new set of valve keepers (16). Tow the car to a reputaible engine shop and ask them to do the work.
If you want to make a good investment, buy a set of roller rockers too.
DON'T DRIVE THIS CAR - IT IS LIKELY TO DROP A VALVE THAT WILL CRATER THE ENGINE
If the mutts who built it refuse to help, order a complete set (16) of replacement retainiers (preferably titanium for a $12K engine) that match the spring set and new set of valve keepers (16). Tow the car to a reputaible engine shop and ask them to do the work.
If you want to make a good investment, buy a set of roller rockers too.