ls1 Timing Chain Tension question?
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 202
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From: Nicholasville, KY
ls1 Timing Chain Tension question? Not sure how to word the title but basicly I am doing a Cam Swap in an 02 Ls1 Motor with 19k. The Timing Chain seems to have less tension then say older 350's with a new chain or low mileage.(They are usually pretty tight with minimal slack) Is this normal, does the chain have more slack than it should? I did not plan on swapping the chain due to the low mileage. Putting a TR244/224 Cam in. Thanks, Jt
I would put an LS2 chain in since they are a more reliable piece and you are already in there. I noticed the same thing though with my new chain; it seems looser than what I remember in the older style motors.
Launching!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 231
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From: Ontario, Canada
I'll be doing the LS2 chain when I do my cam swap. The chain carries the same part number as the LS1 chain but actually has quite beefier links from what I've been told. Ideally I'd like to have someone take a picture of an LS1 chain and LS2 chain side by side in a scenario that actually shows the difference in the two chains.
Best of luck my friend!
Best of luck my friend!
Launching!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 231
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From: Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted by BigBlockChev572
LS2 chain is the way to go. Mat, there is a picture floating around here of a scenario you speak of. LS2 chain is much beefier and requires no modification. I'm running one with my TR224.
Thanks!
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 202
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From: Nicholasville, KY
Thanks for the replies guys. I didnt want to mess with the chain but I guess better safe than sorry. Should I change out the oil pump while I'm at it, if so which one?
Also just wanted to add this is one of the easiest motors I have had the pleasure of working On, everything is set up to come off in one piece and very easily, dont have to remove much to get to the cam. Very sweet set up to work on............jt
Also just wanted to add this is one of the easiest motors I have had the pleasure of working On, everything is set up to come off in one piece and very easily, dont have to remove much to get to the cam. Very sweet set up to work on............jt
Launching!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 231
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From: Ontario, Canada
I'm personally going with a stock GM LS6 oil pump. The ported ones are great but I've done a lot of reading on them and the general consensus is get one if you have extra money to burn. The "porting" really just cleans up casting flash in the inlet and in some cases a stronger spring is installed in the pump.
The earlier LS1 pumps were semi-prone to failure and thus a revised design came out on the 2001 cars if I remember correctly. (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
Thus, most people (myself included) seem to go for the LS6 version (of which is the updated one) and thus have a little extra piece of mind. IMHO don't spend the extra dinero on a ported pump.
The earlier LS1 pumps were semi-prone to failure and thus a revised design came out on the 2001 cars if I remember correctly. (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
Thus, most people (myself included) seem to go for the LS6 version (of which is the updated one) and thus have a little extra piece of mind. IMHO don't spend the extra dinero on a ported pump.
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I installed an LS2 chain in my 2K LS1 and the damn thing was as slack as the original,thats the way they are.There is a chain guide kit available that retrofits to all LS1's [2 bolt holes may need to be drilled/tapped,instructions included]that looks like a good addition.
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I have had 3 cams on my stock TC,stock, Hotcam & FMS11 current, I have over 30 cam swaps under my belt and the chains I have seen with 75K plus have the same play as the ones with under 10K. Timing chain breakage is in no way a major problem on LSX motors, I dont blame anyone for installing a new chain"while they are in there" but if you dont want to swap it odds are in your favor that it will cause no harm.
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 202
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From: Nicholasville, KY
So the general feeling is the timing chains have a little more slack than conventional older style 350 engines and as far as the pump goes I guess being from an 02 Motor I shouldn't have any problems with it. Hmm, Maybe I'll stick with the original plan after all. Not that I'm thrifty (cheap) but everything is apart and ready to go back together and I am impatient and dont want to have to wait on the parts. Thanks..........jt
Launching!
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 211
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From: Guatemala City.
C`MON GUYS, comparing your shiny new LSx to an gen I-II V8 is like trying to see if my grandma (still?) uses thongs....
the reason the older v8s where so tight and beefier is that apart from valvetrain duty the chain needed to drive the oil pump + the distribuitor, and hence the "need" for lack of slack, the ignition have to be fairly acurate...
the new design, the slack is OK even for the armonics, and there are less than 1deg total variance.
IF YOURE AT IT! go ahead an put an ls2 chain GMP# 12586482 (30ish bucks) clean up the sharp edges in your oil pump, put a couple of 0.040" stainless steel washers between the relieve spring and cap (allen key), also buy the chain dampner GMPT# 88958607 (quite pricy for a plastic part)
also drill the cam-sprockets retaining bolts for safety wire, RED locktite, Ive heard (read) fairly frequent that this bolts came loose.
with the z06-1 pumps, thera are THE SAME dont bother to hear BS from someone selling a "special" ls6 pump. for clarification PERHAPS later production pumps got more machining attention...
also when installing oil pump do not slap it, measure it.... with gerotor removed (pump disasembled) instal pump body to crank snout with two bolts finger tight, slide two gap feelers diametrally opossite of 0.002" Th. this WILL center pump body, tighten up the four bolts, then drench the gerotor in 90 oil (!) (this will insure sucking power when first starting) assemble the pump....
prelube your (new!) oil filter install it, put cheap 10W oil
START..... PRAY..... oil needle jumps..... GOOOOOOD JOB!!!!!!!
use the car easy for about two hours... drop oil...
new oil (favorite good quality) new filter.....
E-N-J-O-Y ! ! ! ! ! !
GOOD LUCK!
the reason the older v8s where so tight and beefier is that apart from valvetrain duty the chain needed to drive the oil pump + the distribuitor, and hence the "need" for lack of slack, the ignition have to be fairly acurate...
the new design, the slack is OK even for the armonics, and there are less than 1deg total variance.
IF YOURE AT IT! go ahead an put an ls2 chain GMP# 12586482 (30ish bucks) clean up the sharp edges in your oil pump, put a couple of 0.040" stainless steel washers between the relieve spring and cap (allen key), also buy the chain dampner GMPT# 88958607 (quite pricy for a plastic part)
also drill the cam-sprockets retaining bolts for safety wire, RED locktite, Ive heard (read) fairly frequent that this bolts came loose.
with the z06-1 pumps, thera are THE SAME dont bother to hear BS from someone selling a "special" ls6 pump. for clarification PERHAPS later production pumps got more machining attention...
also when installing oil pump do not slap it, measure it.... with gerotor removed (pump disasembled) instal pump body to crank snout with two bolts finger tight, slide two gap feelers diametrally opossite of 0.002" Th. this WILL center pump body, tighten up the four bolts, then drench the gerotor in 90 oil (!) (this will insure sucking power when first starting) assemble the pump....
prelube your (new!) oil filter install it, put cheap 10W oil
START..... PRAY..... oil needle jumps..... GOOOOOOD JOB!!!!!!!
use the car easy for about two hours... drop oil...
new oil (favorite good quality) new filter.....
E-N-J-O-Y ! ! ! ! ! !
GOOD LUCK!
On The Tree
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 114
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just take the sharp edges that are in the oil path off (do not mess up the area where the intake o-ring seats) on the oil pump that you have, and install .080 worth of SS washers on top of the stock spring. I would replace the timing chain with a LS2 part, it is cheap insurance.
none of the oil pumps break but some of the early pumps would have the piston in the pressure relief valve stick open causing very low oil pressure. I would center the oil pump housing as described above if you do not the drive can wear on the housing which will wear off alumn shavings into your oil, not my idea of a good time, and can lead to the stuck relief valve.
In short you would probable not have any problems with just putting it all back in, but if I have my car apart to this level, I like to take the time to be sure that I will not be forced to do it again, not to mention that a failed timming chain is catastrophic even if it is low odds that it will break.
all of the stock timming chains are a little slack the only way to fix is to go to a double roller for $150.00, but it sure rolls nice, just like the SBC
.
good luck
More Than Zero
none of the oil pumps break but some of the early pumps would have the piston in the pressure relief valve stick open causing very low oil pressure. I would center the oil pump housing as described above if you do not the drive can wear on the housing which will wear off alumn shavings into your oil, not my idea of a good time, and can lead to the stuck relief valve.
In short you would probable not have any problems with just putting it all back in, but if I have my car apart to this level, I like to take the time to be sure that I will not be forced to do it again, not to mention that a failed timming chain is catastrophic even if it is low odds that it will break.
all of the stock timming chains are a little slack the only way to fix is to go to a double roller for $150.00, but it sure rolls nice, just like the SBC
.good luck
More Than Zero
TECH Resident
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 800
Likes: 1
From: Simi VAlley,CA
I installed one of the GM chain guides on my motor as a cheap precaution. If you ever saw what that chain does at 6000 rpm, you'd think about installing this guide kit also. I guess it was originally engineered for the C5 race motor program. In daily driving it doesn't make any difference, performance-wise......but then I like the fact that it's there......keeping my little chain happy!
