JZ'sTA: you have a good point, but you can run bigger valves with the MS3 w/o flycutting.

I am not gonna give away my setup quite yet, but I assure you that you can run stock pistons w/o flycutting and the Dart 225s with aftermarket valves. MS3 cam only has run 10.50s in a A4 car. I am going with higher compression for my setup. The best advice I can give is talk to the maker of the cam and heads and see what they recommend. That's what I did.

 

Defentially good advice there. I believe you can make it work but can you also mill the heads to get good compression? And lets say somehow you found a way to make that work, now how much clearence do you have left?
I bet its not .060-.080 area which is the area most guys feel if safe.
I would hate to see a nice setup go together and then after the first overrev its time to take everything back apart to fix a valve.
I have done it myself and it pretty much sucks.
10.5's in a A4 car is impressive, I wish I new the car so I could see how it was done. If the car weighs 3000 lbs and has a 4400+ stall then I would expect mid 10's out of suck a setup.
I have gone 11.2 with a 224/228 cam only setup FULL WEIGHT including 2 12's in the back and a 4000 stall. Making the 1/4 in the auto is always easier.

 

If you have the cash I would DEFENTIALLY go the MS3/ETP 215 combo.
This will be a nasty combo with your already nice list of supporting mods.
The only way I can think of a nicer combo for a 346 would be ETP 215's, the MS3 cam and a 90/90 sitting on top.
If you were my customer that is what I would suggest for the most power.
A G5X3/G5X4/Trex or something similar might gain a pony or two but the MS3 will hold its own for sure.

The difference between heads.......
This is tough to explain without taking all day and providing links to back up my oponions. But I will try.....
First off one HUGE difference is that both AFR and ETP use aftermarket casting that are stronger then GM casting heads. They also have a TON of research trying to find the best possible port design. The thicker head deck is another great advantage. You have the consistancy that can be given by other companies but if defentially there with AFR/ETP.
Then you have a huge advantage in making power. Not something you will see in flow numbers but you will see it on the dyno. That is the smaller port of the heads. AFR has a 205 and ETP starts out at 215, that is where they get their names. This is small incomparision to others. Many other heads that achieve similar flow numbers as the AFR and ETP heads will be 230+ which isn't a good thing.
We could discuss this all day to try and help you understand but using the search button is where I will leave you on this issue because I dont have all day. Min cross section area is something you will hear over and over that is a benifit with AFR and ETP.
Now lets say we threw all the **** I just typed out the door and ran over to the dyno section area. Guess who wins over there? Yep you guessed it the aftermarket casting typicially wins that war as well.

The LSx ported heads do have some advantages.
Mainly price. These 850-1200 dollar heads however wont even come close to the ETP/AFR heads, but when you see a good stage 2 head that is typicially 1500 dollars now your geting into a head that will compete IN the FLOW NUMBERS. A common build I suggest to someone wanting to make the most power without flycuting and on a budget but has some cash to blow is this..
224/228 cam or if he wants a little more I use a 228/232 cam. TEA 5.3 stage 1.5 heads and the 90/90.
heads are 1550, 90/90 is about 1150 and the cam is 400. So the total is 3100. Now if he already has a LS6 intake and ported TB he can get 400 bucks back by selling those items. So total out of pocket is 2700.
That is pretty much the same price as the AFR/ETP heads and a cam.
Which package would make more power???? I feel the TEA's with the 90/90 will make as much or maybe more then the AFR's, same cam and having to keep the LS6 intake and stock ported TB.
Again I could go on all day, hope some of that helps at least a little.
My choice for you would clearly be the MS3 cam, ETP 215 heads, Fast 90 intake and Nick Williams 90mm TB.
That would be a hell of a setup, and could make some real killer HP.
You could get the compression way up as well and never worry about flycuting the pistons.

 

I am unsure on the milling as I am not the one doing the head work, Jason at TSP is. Everyone's setup is going to be different ya know. I myself wanted a streetable 9 second daily driver, and that's now what I have. I am a moderator, and I wanted to use off the shelf parts accessible to anyone on this board, from all of our different sponsors to show what can be done when a car is setup right.

The 10.50 car was TSP's car. It had a TCI 4500 stall and 4.10 gears I believe. I used to have a TSP 231/237 cam on stock heads, and went 11.20@120 with a 3050 raceweight on a stiff sidewall 28" tire. I was shifting at 7000 with the stock bottom end, but only trapped at 6000 in 3rd at the end of the quarter mile. It was too much tire for my old N/A setup. It would have seen 10.80s for sure. Once I get my heads from TSP I will take it to the track and get some solid N/A numbers as well as nitrous.

 

ok so if i go ETP's i am goin to need the MS3, ported ls6 oil pump, tdbl roller timin chain, what pushrods would i need? and alos goin to need a good tune..... i think i am goin to ttp or slowhawk not sure yet. What else will i need? i am tryin to figure how much $$$ i will be out beofre i start orderin? thanks agian for eveyones help i have learned alot you guys r great!

 

9's aren't the easiest, congs on geting there.
I know I struggled geting out of the low-mid 10's for a while and then all of a sudden you do 1 small thing different and you start to wonder why you didn't try that before. For me it was as easy as a converter swap.
Jason might be doing a angle mill of some sort which can get some added compression while no giving up as much P/V clearence.
I am still unsure how that works as I have never seen it just heard of people doing it. I used that same 231/237 cam before as well. I liked it a lot. Made very good power in a cam only 6 speed setup we did. The owner really liked the way it sounded as well.
Too bad you never threw the 26" tall tire on, would have probally knocked you right down into the 10's and close to 7000 when crossing the traps.

 

You would need a 8.1" PR as ET's heads require a longer PR.
Also your looking at about 250-275 dollars for all new gaskets, bolts etc.
I personially would buy the gasket kit from someone like thunder and buy the one w/o head bolts. Then order a set of ARP head bolts.
From what I hear both Slowhawk and TTP do very good tuning. Matt seems like a nice guy, and slowhawk has like 7000 posts so he clearly dosen't mind taking time to help someone out.

 

also where do you think is my best bet to get the ETP's from?

 

i second that.

you're in NJ - go to TTP

 

Glad to see your considering the ETP's strongly. They are damn good heads.

 

one more question and i am sure its not the last haha..... What am i goin to be crankign the motor up to..... 6700, 6800? i dont want to go to high but i want to get the full power out of the cam

 

and can i use stock rockers?

 

Stock rockers and 7000

 

that wont be to high for a stock bottom end? thanks for all the replys too

 

I had the limiter set @ 6900 on my 231/237 setup. High rev cams need to rev high.
Don't want to go that high, then get a smaller cam. F11 peaks at 6250. Nice spot for a peak if you're concerned about revs.

 

Should i be concerned with my stock bottom end? or can it take it

 

It's a risk you assume. I had no hesitation about revving to 6900, but I always knew that there was a greater possibility of something going wrong. Generally, 7+K is considered forbidden territory, but some people push it to 7200. It's all up to you.

 

One set of Katech rod bolts and you can spin that all day long.

 

I agree with every post made above. Spin that motor up there. I wouldn't be too scared. You have the better rod bolts as your a 2002 but I would personially also swap in the Katech's as said above. For 100 bucks or whatever they are it is just extra insurance for very little money.

 

In that case buy the ET 215's or AFR 225. TTP does alot of big cam - AFR 225 setups.