Not much gain with S2 heads.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From: W.Palm Beach, Fl.
Not much gain with S2 heads. I finally got 200 miles put on the new heads. Wanted that much time for it to learn new flow.
The thing is, I opened it up a few times now and it doesn't feel like I picked up that much?
Maybe 15 HP from the feel. There are no dyno's around here. I'ld have to go to Miami and don't even know if they have one.
Track is closed for the next 3 weeks.
I was hoping to get 30 HP from the heads. <img src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" border="0" alt="[whiner]" />
The thing is, I opened it up a few times now and it doesn't feel like I picked up that much?
Maybe 15 HP from the feel. There are no dyno's around here. I'ld have to go to Miami and don't even know if they have one.
Track is closed for the next 3 weeks.
I was hoping to get 30 HP from the heads. <img src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" border="0" alt="[whiner]" />
Re: Not much gain with S2 heads. I didnt have money for stage 2 heads or stage 1. So I just had a local shop mildly port my stock ones. Had them pocket port, fully port the exhaust side and 5 angle valve job. The stock heads flow good anyways. Thats why LS1s have a lot of power, a lot of it is in the head design.
Ive seen a stage 1 heads with b1(or T1) run over 120mph. Thats more than some stage 2 heads run. I dont think there really is that big of a difference besides valves.
Casey
NOTE: Im not saying stage 2 heads are bad, Id take em or buy them if I could.
[ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: turbo ]</p>
Ive seen a stage 1 heads with b1(or T1) run over 120mph. Thats more than some stage 2 heads run. I dont think there really is that big of a difference besides valves.
Casey
NOTE: Im not saying stage 2 heads are bad, Id take em or buy them if I could.
[ December 29, 2001: Message edited by: turbo ]</p>
Re: Not much gain with S2 heads. How come you don't dyno at Reith Motorsports (work on fords mostly) in Boynton Beach. They are just off boynton beach blvd, on industrial ave I think.
Re: Not much gain with S2 heads. There is a dyno in your area.. Go on www.sffba.com and ask someone where it is...
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From: W.Palm Beach, Fl.
Re: Not much gain with S2 heads. Thanks I'll try and give them a call after the holidays. I wish I'ld have known of them sooner, I would have had the car dyno'ed a long time ago. <img src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" border="0" alt="[barf]" />
Re: Not much gain with S2 heads. I wouldn't trust the SOTP meter. Also have ATAPed? You might have tuning issues. Heads could have leaned you out too much. Find a dyno and wideband. If your results disappoint, then call mike Morgan (I thought you bought MMS heads?).
BTW, if you gained 30 ft-lbs, your converter would hold 200 - 300 rpm more on your upshifts then before the heads swap. Take a look and see.
[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: Ragtop 99 ]</p>
BTW, if you gained 30 ft-lbs, your converter would hold 200 - 300 rpm more on your upshifts then before the heads swap. Take a look and see.
[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: Ragtop 99 ]</p>
TECH Addict
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,556
Likes: 0
From: Nawf Carolina
Re: Not much gain with S2 heads. [quote]Originally posted by Ragtop 99:
<strong>BTW, if you gained 30 ft-lbs, your converter would hold 200 - 300 rpm more on your upshifts then before the heads swap. Take a look and see.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Explain this to me please, I dont really understand what you're saying.
I know more torque will make the true stall higher. Are you saying he'd get 200-300 more rpm of shift extension as well? Like if his revs after a shift used to drop to 4500, are you saying now they would only drop to 4700 or 4800?
J.
[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: Crazyquik ]</p>
<strong>BTW, if you gained 30 ft-lbs, your converter would hold 200 - 300 rpm more on your upshifts then before the heads swap. Take a look and see.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Explain this to me please, I dont really understand what you're saying.
I know more torque will make the true stall higher. Are you saying he'd get 200-300 more rpm of shift extension as well? Like if his revs after a shift used to drop to 4500, are you saying now they would only drop to 4700 or 4800?
J.
[ December 30, 2001: Message edited by: Crazyquik ]</p>
Trending Topics
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 11,603
Likes: 0
From: Chi-Town, IL
Re: Not much gain with S2 heads. My friend around here had some problems with his MMS heads....basically he made **** for HP...
350rwhp and like 370rwtq with a 3200vig..
224/224 .568/.568 112lsa cam and stage 2 MMS heads...
That was with an unlocked converter...but I still think thats not a lot for around $4000 dollars...
350rwhp and like 370rwtq with a 3200vig..
224/224 .568/.568 112lsa cam and stage 2 MMS heads...
That was with an unlocked converter...but I still think thats not a lot for around $4000 dollars...
TECH Addict
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,556
Likes: 0
From: Nawf Carolina
Re: Not much gain with S2 heads. BigBos, what did he make before he had the heads-cam installed though? If he only dynoed 295 before, thats a nice gain. If he dynoed 325 before it's not that good.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From: W.Palm Beach, Fl.
Re: Not much gain with S2 heads. I've got the PCM out of the car and will be sending it back to Ed Wright today. I'll see what adjustments he can make. I sent him some A-taps of the L-trims. It's very hard for me to get any WOT runs around here. <img src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" border="0">
Re: Not much gain with S2 heads. [quote]Originally posted by Crazyquik:
<strong>
Are you saying he'd get 200-300 more rpm of shift extension as well? Like if his revs after a shift used to drop to 4500, are you saying now they would only drop to 4700 or 4800?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly. The extra torque stretches the converter the across the board. It's much easier to observe when you add a power addeder or make a major change like adding H&C. Hard to see with bolt-ons (except for headers) as the tq increase is too little or if you have a low stall converter as the shift extension gets overrun quickly.
<strong>
Are you saying he'd get 200-300 more rpm of shift extension as well? Like if his revs after a shift used to drop to 4500, are you saying now they would only drop to 4700 or 4800?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly. The extra torque stretches the converter the across the board. It's much easier to observe when you add a power addeder or make a major change like adding H&C. Hard to see with bolt-ons (except for headers) as the tq increase is too little or if you have a low stall converter as the shift extension gets overrun quickly.
Re: Not much gain with S2 heads. [quote]
My friend around here had some problems with his MMS heads....basically he made **** for HP...
350rwhp and like 370rwtq with a 3200vig..
224/224 .568/.568 112lsa cam and stage 2 MMS heads...
<hr></blockquote>
I have the same setup with the MMS 114ls 224 camshaft, the stage 2 heads, long tubes, no cats, and all the bolt ons, and MMS tuning. I made 402rwhp through an unlocked ST3800rpm stall before my electric water pump. What are your friends other mods? What does his car run at the track? Did he really make 325rwhp through an unlocked vigil 3200? (that's pretty high for a stock motor).
My friend around here had some problems with his MMS heads....basically he made **** for HP...
350rwhp and like 370rwtq with a 3200vig..
224/224 .568/.568 112lsa cam and stage 2 MMS heads...
<hr></blockquote>
I have the same setup with the MMS 114ls 224 camshaft, the stage 2 heads, long tubes, no cats, and all the bolt ons, and MMS tuning. I made 402rwhp through an unlocked ST3800rpm stall before my electric water pump. What are your friends other mods? What does his car run at the track? Did he really make 325rwhp through an unlocked vigil 3200? (that's pretty high for a stock motor).