What did this to my Heads?
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From: Iowa :-/~
What did this to my Heads? 
I need some advice on what to do about my heads. This car has 35,000 highway miles on it and has made about 25 nitrous runs. I have always been very slow on nitrous (Some of you may remember) 12.4 @ 111 with a 100 shot. I have been running with cats off open cut out SLP LT headers and O2 SIMMS. (By the way I use a NX wet kit). The car has been off the road for about three months only being started every three weeks or so but not driven. Just ran long enough to keep the battery charged. I am in the middle of doing a cam install (In sig below) but here is what I found about my heads.
Notice the intake bowl on the left it looks as if there has been blow back into this valve and even on another one next to it. this is the 1 & 2 on the passenger side of the car. I plan of port and polishing the heads myself. My question is this what do you think would have caused this condition in the intake valves? What would you do? Re-seat the old valves, buy new and get a head job? Note I already have the cam, 941 springs, Titanium seats but I can't find the retainers. (ARGGG!) The over all conditions of the valves are great with the exception of a LARGE amount of carbon throughout the heads and even on the pistons. Is this somewhat normal or do I have bigger problems. <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0">
Please look at more photos here.
[ January 13, 2002: Message edited by: 2000 Camaro SS ]
[ January 14, 2002: Message edited by: 2000 Camaro SS ]</p>
TECH Junkie
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From: Melbourne, FL
Re: What did this to my Heads? It's hard to see a lot of details in the pics, but to me it looks like typical oil ingestion from the POS stock PCV systems these cars have... They love to suck oil in through the intake manifold and coat the valves. At least they won't rust <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
I've completely done away with the PCV system on my car, but I wouldn't recommend that to everyone...
I've completely done away with the PCV system on my car, but I wouldn't recommend that to everyone...
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From: new england
Re: What did this to my Heads? 2000ss, if you mean there is combustion soot in 1 or more intake bowls, than that means intake valves are not sealing. I would do a valve job on seats and use new stainless valves(especially with nitrous) they will help sealing survive longer. Use competent mach. shop and have guides checked, backcut valves , and make sure valve heights are equal or motor can set random missfire codes.
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From: Iowa :-/~
Re: What did this to my Heads? [quote]Originally posted by LS1derfull:
<strong>2000ss, if you mean there is combustion soot in 1 or more intake bowls, than that means intake valves are not sealing. I would do a valve job on seats and use new stainless valves(especially with nitrous) they will help sealing survive longer. Use competent mach. shop and have guides checked, backcut valves , and make sure valve heights are equal or motor can set random missfire codes.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes that's what it looks like. How would a valve job effect the parts that I already bought? I have just bought a Lunati cam 221/224 .558 .560 941 springs and pushrods all from Thunder racing in a kite per sei. If I get a valve job will I be able to use the springs, retainers, push rods, or will I have to buy another length push rod and so on?
<strong>2000ss, if you mean there is combustion soot in 1 or more intake bowls, than that means intake valves are not sealing. I would do a valve job on seats and use new stainless valves(especially with nitrous) they will help sealing survive longer. Use competent mach. shop and have guides checked, backcut valves , and make sure valve heights are equal or motor can set random missfire codes.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes that's what it looks like. How would a valve job effect the parts that I already bought? I have just bought a Lunati cam 221/224 .558 .560 941 springs and pushrods all from Thunder racing in a kite per sei. If I get a valve job will I be able to use the springs, retainers, push rods, or will I have to buy another length push rod and so on?
Resident Grump
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From: Walker County Alabama
Re: What did this to my Heads? I'm going with George on the one... Looks likw PVC leakage to me. If it was me I would do my porting, get a good valve job due to the car having 35000 miles and put it back togeather.
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From: new england
Re: What did this to my Heads? 2000ss, im not saying you dont have a pcv oiling problem but there isnt consistent blow back staining in all the valve bowls, so simply lap valves to seats to see if valve job is problem.
If you do go with new valves, make sure they are exact same length as stock valves and a reputable mach. shop wont sink the seat enough when grinding to throw off lifter preload. That would allow for reusing your other stuff.
If you do go with new valves, make sure they are exact same length as stock valves and a reputable mach. shop wont sink the seat enough when grinding to throw off lifter preload. That would allow for reusing your other stuff.
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From: Iowa :-/~
Re: What did this to my Heads? [quote]Originally posted by LS1derfull:
<strong>2000ss, im not saying you dont have a pcv oiling problem but there isnt consistent blow back staining in all the valve bowls, so simply lap valves to seats to see if valve job is problem.
If you do go with new valves, make sure they are exact same length as stock valves and a reputable mach. shop wont sink the seat enough when grinding to throw off lifter preload. That would allow for reusing your other stuff.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks for the info I am leaning to just lap the valves and see what happens then. At this point my money tree died and blew away.
<strong>2000ss, im not saying you dont have a pcv oiling problem but there isnt consistent blow back staining in all the valve bowls, so simply lap valves to seats to see if valve job is problem.
If you do go with new valves, make sure they are exact same length as stock valves and a reputable mach. shop wont sink the seat enough when grinding to throw off lifter preload. That would allow for reusing your other stuff.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks for the info I am leaning to just lap the valves and see what happens then. At this point my money tree died and blew away.
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Brett Foote Thread Starter
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From: Iowa :-/~
Re: What did this to my Heads? [quote]Originally posted by 1dirtyZ:
<strong>this is off the subject a bit , but in your other pics, it seems you are saving the head bolts ( maybe for reuse?); BIG NO NO!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Very observant. :-) And thanks for the heads up, but no, I do have new bolts on order. I have everything laid out the way you see it in the photos purely for diagnostic reasons. I know I can't see much from the bolts but they are also laid out in order so I know where the short ones go. Thanks for the information although.
<strong>this is off the subject a bit , but in your other pics, it seems you are saving the head bolts ( maybe for reuse?); BIG NO NO!!!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Very observant. :-) And thanks for the heads up, but no, I do have new bolts on order. I have everything laid out the way you see it in the photos purely for diagnostic reasons. I know I can't see much from the bolts but they are also laid out in order so I know where the short ones go. Thanks for the information although.
Thread Starter
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From: Iowa :-/~
Re: What did this to my Heads? [quote]Originally posted by blackhawk2000:
<strong>Do you have a bottle heater?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes I do and use it. Why are you on to something?
<strong>Do you have a bottle heater?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes I do and use it. Why are you on to something?
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From: Sterling Heights Mi
Re: What did this to my Heads? Well I was thinking you might be a little rich on the spray, and that could cause some build up maybe. It also looks like the build up could be from our notorious PCV system. The intake ports themselves all look clean to me, so I would rule out bad intake valve seating. I don't see the blowback you refer to though. Also the target A/F ratio is like 11.5 so it could also be from running rich. It's probably a combination of the A/F, and PCV. I would guess if you sprayed a lot everything would be a little cleaner.
As far as putting them back together goes, if you want to do it cheaply just lap the valves back in. After you clean the valves off pinch the valve stem between your fingers and rub up and down on the stem. You should be able to feel if they are worn.(Note I have felt wear before on stems that mic'ed within specs, and felt no wear on ones that mic'ed bad) After lapping the valves in take a black magic marker, and mark 4 corners of the valve face with a marker, and put in it's proper guide. Then press down on the valve center, and spin the valve. You should have nice equal wear in the center of the valve faces. If 3 marks get rubbed off, and 1 doesn't you probably have a bent valve. Then check the valve seats the same way. You want equal wear patterns on seat, and face. If the valve faces are pitted, they should be resurfaced. Dip the tips in oil when assembling, and use those condoms when putting the new seals on. A washer with a slightly larger hole than the stem dia. helps to push the seals on. That's the cheap way <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
Also be careful not to nick any of the seats when porting.
As far as putting them back together goes, if you want to do it cheaply just lap the valves back in. After you clean the valves off pinch the valve stem between your fingers and rub up and down on the stem. You should be able to feel if they are worn.(Note I have felt wear before on stems that mic'ed within specs, and felt no wear on ones that mic'ed bad) After lapping the valves in take a black magic marker, and mark 4 corners of the valve face with a marker, and put in it's proper guide. Then press down on the valve center, and spin the valve. You should have nice equal wear in the center of the valve faces. If 3 marks get rubbed off, and 1 doesn't you probably have a bent valve. Then check the valve seats the same way. You want equal wear patterns on seat, and face. If the valve faces are pitted, they should be resurfaced. Dip the tips in oil when assembling, and use those condoms when putting the new seals on. A washer with a slightly larger hole than the stem dia. helps to push the seals on. That's the cheap way <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
Also be careful not to nick any of the seats when porting.