Which lid makes the most power?
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,246
Likes: 34
From: Victoria, TX
Which lid makes the most power? This may seem like too much of a newbie question, but hear me out. With so many of us making over 400 rwhp these days, is there going to be a lid that has superiority over another at this power level?
The School of Automotive Machinists did some flow bench testing last year and found that a Direct Flow lid outflowed their MTI lid by a pretty sizeable margin. OK, flow numbers are great, but what about gains at the track? Or on the dyno? I've heard guys like Tony say that all the lids make the same power, but is this really true. I need more test results than opinions.
Right now I have a Whisper Carbon Fiber Lid along with a FTRA and K&N. Could a Direct Flow lid or LS1 Solutions lid make any more power over what I have? I also like the looks of the new K&N FIPK. I'm just a little leery of the open filter sucking in warm underhood air though. Cool air is power and my FTRA scoop keeps the IAT temps down nice and low.
LOL, even though I'm a 4 year LS1 veteran, I feel like a newbie asking such a basic question. Technology has evolved since 1998 though. Got to keep up with the times. So, are there any lids or air boxes that will give me a measureable gain over a Whisper lid?
The School of Automotive Machinists did some flow bench testing last year and found that a Direct Flow lid outflowed their MTI lid by a pretty sizeable margin. OK, flow numbers are great, but what about gains at the track? Or on the dyno? I've heard guys like Tony say that all the lids make the same power, but is this really true. I need more test results than opinions.
Right now I have a Whisper Carbon Fiber Lid along with a FTRA and K&N. Could a Direct Flow lid or LS1 Solutions lid make any more power over what I have? I also like the looks of the new K&N FIPK. I'm just a little leery of the open filter sucking in warm underhood air though. Cool air is power and my FTRA scoop keeps the IAT temps down nice and low.
LOL, even though I'm a 4 year LS1 veteran, I feel like a newbie asking such a basic question. Technology has evolved since 1998 though. Got to keep up with the times. So, are there any lids or air boxes that will give me a measureable gain over a Whisper lid?
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
TECH Addict
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,556
Likes: 0
From: Nawf Carolina
Re: Which lid makes the most power? I think a lid of any kind is a restriction eventually. I think a huge cone K&N hanging down infront of the radiator would be better at a big power level (if you even run a filter). But there you run into the problem of having a lot of piping and losses there.
Steve Harmon built his own lid once, it was too big for nitrous but you might be able to borrow/buy it from him to test it.
J.
Steve Harmon built his own lid once, it was too big for nitrous but you might be able to borrow/buy it from him to test it.
J.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 351
Likes: 0
From: Colorado Springs, CO
Re: Which lid makes the most power? I believe all the lids of similiar nature make about the same. IMO They are the same basic design.
[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: Jackyl_30 ]</p>
[ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: Jackyl_30 ]</p>
Re: Which lid makes the most power? Personally i picked up 3hp and 4lbs/tq with the Volant over my Directflo Lid on a bone stock car...
My $.02 <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[Burnout]" />
My $.02 <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[Burnout]" />
D(irecto)r Pepper
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,952
Likes: 0
From: Houston Raceway Park...in TEXAS.
Re: Which lid makes the most power? I use a MTI lid. So far I have no complaints. Are there better lids out there? i havent seen them.
I really dont think a filter and tube is the way to go as far as a replacement for the lid/airbox set up.
A sealed box and ram air is the best set up in my opinion. (something like FTRA)
I use a home made version....and the afore mentioned lid.
I really dont think a filter and tube is the way to go as far as a replacement for the lid/airbox set up.
A sealed box and ram air is the best set up in my opinion. (something like FTRA)
I use a home made version....and the afore mentioned lid.
!Dial-up Director
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,100
Likes: 1
From: Louisiana
Re: Which lid makes the most power? I've been wondering the same thing since I read this >> http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread...&threadid=2860
Justin
Justin
Trending Topics
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
Five Reasons the Camaro Was the Most Pivotal Player in the Pony Car Wars 2.0
Brett Foote
10 Reasons the LS7 Is GM's Most Extreme Naturally Aspirated V8 Engine Ever
Verdad Gallardo
TECH Addict
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,959
Likes: 1
From: HOU - yeah, you know the rest.
Re: Which lid makes the most power? [quote]Originally posted by JS:
<strong>Direct flow and a BG ram air kit.
Thats the bottem line....
JS</strong><hr></blockquote>
Who is BG? Direct Flow is the bottom line? Lets take a poll of the 20 or so fastest LS1's out there and see what they run. Theory is nice but we live in the real world.
<strong>Direct flow and a BG ram air kit.
Thats the bottem line....
JS</strong><hr></blockquote>
Who is BG? Direct Flow is the bottom line? Lets take a poll of the 20 or so fastest LS1's out there and see what they run. Theory is nice but we live in the real world.
Re: Which lid makes the most power? Well, I'm not sure I have the exact answer to your question but this may be relative. I baselined my car BONE STOCK W/17K on the clock and it did 296RWHP & 320RWTQ. After installing a Whisper lid it dyno'd 318RWHP & 333RWTQ. A gain of 22RWHP 13RWTQ.
99 WS6 M6. I'm pretty happy with the whisper brand, but it may pick up more with a direct flow or any other brand. But I'm satisfied with what the whisper delivered.
99 WS6 M6. I'm pretty happy with the whisper brand, but it may pick up more with a direct flow or any other brand. But I'm satisfied with what the whisper delivered.
Re: Which lid makes the most power? Your theory about cold air would explain what happen with my car on the dyno. I installed the Whisper Ram Air (just like the FTRA) while on a dyno, with nothing but a small blower motor pushing air at the front air dam I picked up 3rwhp.
The FTRA type setup works well, but I do not run the air box "plug". More air is better.. especially with my WS6 hood with the baffles removed, providing BIG air <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: WILWAXU ]</p>
The FTRA type setup works well, but I do not run the air box "plug". More air is better.. especially with my WS6 hood with the baffles removed, providing BIG air <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
[ February 05, 2002: Message edited by: WILWAXU ]</p>
Re: Which lid makes the most power? Preddy recently posted that the DirectFlo produced better flow results too.
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ulti...c&f=1&t=002294
Crazyquick: The round K&N set-up was used in connection with the powerdyne blower. The original kit intake, designed to work with a stock lid, had a restrictive and circuitous design because of the blower.
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ulti...c&f=1&t=002294
Crazyquick: The round K&N set-up was used in connection with the powerdyne blower. The original kit intake, designed to work with a stock lid, had a restrictive and circuitous design because of the blower.
Re: Which lid makes the most power? [quote]Originally posted by Ragtop 99:
<strong>Preddy recently posted that the DirectFlo produced better flow results too.
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ulti...c&f=1&t=002294</strong><hr></blockquote>
So if your to believe those results as accuarate... The 8rwhp I saw on the dyno after lid install was a lie?
Sorry.. I didn't respond to that thread, it appears to be alot of hot air focused at one particular manufacture that Preddy a "beef" with.
<strong>Preddy recently posted that the DirectFlo produced better flow results too.
https://ls1tech.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ulti...c&f=1&t=002294</strong><hr></blockquote>
So if your to believe those results as accuarate... The 8rwhp I saw on the dyno after lid install was a lie?
Sorry.. I didn't respond to that thread, it appears to be alot of hot air focused at one particular manufacture that Preddy a "beef" with.
Re: Which lid makes the most power? I think Patrick started this thread to get input from people who are making over 400rwhp. It you're not making over 400rwhp, please don't respond. <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0">
Re: Which lid makes the most power? [quote]Originally posted by Ragtop 99:
<strong>WTF? <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0"> When did I accuse you of lying??</strong><hr></blockquote>
Joel... Wasn't focused at you..
I believe the "results" in that thread are BS.
<strong>WTF? <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0"> When did I accuse you of lying??</strong><hr></blockquote>
Joel... Wasn't focused at you..
I believe the "results" in that thread are BS.
On The Tree
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 149
Likes: 0
From: IN
Re: Which lid makes the most power? All the air lids are pretty much designed the same anyway, so one being much more improved over the other one doesn't make much sense to me. Something I have not seen alot of is the conical type air filter systems on our cars. I think we ought to turn our focus to those.
I think that the all out big cube motors are the ones to gain if anything. The stock cube motor's don't pull in enough air to make a dramatic difference, unless your are running real high rpm's. Like Tony said the lids are not the bottle neck, but I feel that a few more horse could be squeezed out of them.
Doug
00 Pontiac
(Direct Flo)
I think that the all out big cube motors are the ones to gain if anything. The stock cube motor's don't pull in enough air to make a dramatic difference, unless your are running real high rpm's. Like Tony said the lids are not the bottle neck, but I feel that a few more horse could be squeezed out of them.
Doug
00 Pontiac
(Direct Flo)
TECH Regular
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 406
Likes: 0
From: HOUSTON
Re: Which lid makes the most power? Patrick just likes to trash any MTI product. He comes around to different shops and acts all buddy buddy. Then he goes to other shops and acts buddy buddy. I made a mistake one time going to another shop, it ended up costing me time and money.
The bottom line is he is not bringing a positive subject to LS1Tech.com. He is just trying to get free parts as usual. IE "convertors"
Hey we all have opinions, this is my opinion.
<img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
The bottom line is he is not bringing a positive subject to LS1Tech.com. He is just trying to get free parts as usual. IE "convertors"
Hey we all have opinions, this is my opinion.
<img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0">
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 8,246
Likes: 34
From: Victoria, TX
Re: Which lid makes the most power? Daniel (EL ES 1):
I'm really surprised to read you think I'm taking a swipe at MTI or their products. I have the utmost respect for Jayson and Jeff and feel that their organization is in a class by itself. Their stuff rocks, their people are courteous, and their prices are in line with the rest of the market. Believe it or not, I've spent tons of money at MTI, it's just been lots of nickels and dimes over the past 4 years.
The focus of this thread is to find out if the "state of the art" has changed in the past 4 years. MTI was the first to come out with a high flow air lid back in '98. That was the first mod I purchased for my LS1. With 4 years of development going into our motors and air boxes, you would expect to see some advances. Is the MTI air lid (or its many copies) still the "state of the art"?
Now the personal reference to me not bringing anything positive to LS1Tech.com will have to be decided by my peers. As for you trying to trash me personally...let's just say we'll discuss that next time we see each other at MTI.
Patrick
I'm really surprised to read you think I'm taking a swipe at MTI or their products. I have the utmost respect for Jayson and Jeff and feel that their organization is in a class by itself. Their stuff rocks, their people are courteous, and their prices are in line with the rest of the market. Believe it or not, I've spent tons of money at MTI, it's just been lots of nickels and dimes over the past 4 years.
The focus of this thread is to find out if the "state of the art" has changed in the past 4 years. MTI was the first to come out with a high flow air lid back in '98. That was the first mod I purchased for my LS1. With 4 years of development going into our motors and air boxes, you would expect to see some advances. Is the MTI air lid (or its many copies) still the "state of the art"?
Now the personal reference to me not bringing anything positive to LS1Tech.com will have to be decided by my peers. As for you trying to trash me personally...let's just say we'll discuss that next time we see each other at MTI.
Patrick
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2022 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 S&B CAI, Corsa catback.
2023 Corvette 3LT Z51 soon to be modified.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
