I have ARE S2 heads (2.055/1.60), MTI B1 cam (221.6/221.6, .558/.558, 114 lobe), SLP longtube headers w/race pipes, a ported LS6 intake, 4.10 gears, and nearly every bolt-on possible. Full list of mods on www.erikz.org

I believe the car should be doing at least 400rwhp, I've seen similar combos getting these numbers...

The car dynoed 373rwhp/363rwtq with the Cam and JBA shorites, before gears, heads, and LT headers.

Same place for dyno, same setup (many months later) with ARE S2 heads, ported intake, gears, custom PCM. Timing looks goods (29-30), O2s good (rich on the dyno), no knock: 370rwhp/355 tq. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> HP curve stays about 3-5 under the old one, but the tq curve loses like 25rwtq in the 3500-4000 rpm range. Not exactly pleased with these results.

We figure the shortie headers are holding it back, and also I think my cats (stock) were blown or having problems, as the car seemed to get quieter and quieter and smell more and more. Replace with SLP LT headers and racepipes, 3" slp y-pipe: same dyno: 385rwhp/363 rwtq. Didnt autotap yet.

Here's what Im thinking of doing:
1) I will ATAP the car to make sure their are no problems, but Im not optimistic this will help much.
2) considering replacing cam, either a TR 224/112, Lunati 226/226 .554, or a bigger 226/234. This is getting expensive...
3) dyno somewhere else? The performance specialities dyno has a rep for being low and inconsistant.
4) it was suggested that the LS6 intake porting (which is mild) may have affected the intake velocity, which could be causing power loss. Try a different intake (LS6 or holley) on the dyno?
5) not that familiar with the gearing, but since this also changed is it possible that somehow the gears are not hooking/installed right? I know to expect 5-10rwhp loss from going to 3.42s to 4.10s, but is more possible? Car does seem to "slip" down low sometimes, not sure if thats the clutch (still stock), tires, or gears. Clutch has slipped on occasion.

Have not really run car on track since all this happened. It did do a 12.68@113.5mph, with a 2.09 60' at rain-soaked SLP day (no one seemed able to get traction), with the shortie headers still on.

Any advise or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ezss:
<strong>I have ARE S2 heads (2.055/1.60), MTI B1 cam (221.6/221.6, .558/.558, 114 lobe), SLP longtube headers w/race pipes, a ported LS6 intake, 4.10 gears, and nearly every bolt-on possible. Full list of mods on www.erikz.org

I believe the car should be doing at least 400rwhp, I've seen similar combos getting these numbers...

The car dynoed 373rwhp/363rwtq with the Cam and JBA shorites, before gears, heads, and LT headers.

Same place for dyno, same setup (many months later) with ARE S2 heads, ported intake, gears, custom PCM. Timing looks goods (29-30), O2s good (rich on the dyno), no knock: 370rwhp/355 tq. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> HP curve stays about 3-5 under the old one, but the tq curve loses like 25rwtq in the 3500-4000 rpm range. Not exactly pleased with these results.

We figure the shortie headers are holding it back, and also I think my cats (stock) were blown or having problems, as the car seemed to get quieter and quieter and smell more and more. Replace with SLP LT headers and racepipes, 3" slp y-pipe: same dyno: 385rwhp/363 rwtq. Didnt autotap yet.

Here's what Im thinking of doing:
1) I will ATAP the car to make sure their are no problems, but Im not optimistic this will help much.
2) considering replacing cam, either a TR 224/112, Lunati 226/226 .554, or a bigger 226/234. This is getting expensive...
3) dyno somewhere else? The performance specialities dyno has a rep for being low and inconsistant.
4) it was suggested that the LS6 intake porting (which is mild) may have affected the intake velocity, which could be causing power loss. Try a different intake (LS6 or holley) on the dyno?
5) not that familiar with the gearing, but since this also changed is it possible that somehow the gears are not hooking/installed right? I know to expect 5-10rwhp loss from going to 3.42s to 4.10s, but is more possible? Car does seem to "slip" down low sometimes, not sure if thats the clutch (still stock), tires, or gears. Clutch has slipped on occasion.

Have not really run car on track since all this happened. It did do a 12.68@113.5mph, with a 2.09 60' at rain-soaked SLP day (no one seemed able to get traction), with the shortie headers still on.

Any advise or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I know the 4.10s cost you at least 10 hp.Now the poting of the intake may have also because if its not done properly then you can lose 20lbs of tq.Ask Terry burger about his ls1 port job.Also you have no tuning and remeber evry car is different some are stronger than others.Also dynos are different than others.Take your baby to the track and see how it runs.If its comparable to everyone elses setup then dont sweat it.How does the car feel to you?Better up top,better all the way around?

 

Oh yeah did you say stock clutch is slipping also?Time to up grade.I know thats costing you.

 

I'd also get the clutch replaced before you go back into the engine. I wouldn't be surprised if that is causing around 12rwhp.

LAter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by The Booker man:
<strong>I know the 4.10s cost you at least 10 hp.Now the poting of the intake may have also because if its not done properly then you can lose 20lbs of tq.Ask Terry burger about his ls1 port job.Also you have no tuning and remeber evry car is different some are stronger than others.Also dynos are different than others.Take your baby to the track and see how it runs.If its comparable to everyone elses setup then dont sweat it.How does the car feel to you?Better up top,better all the way around?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It actually does have tuning, an ED wright fastchips PCM, which was setup up specifically for the heads and my combination of mods.

The car feels very strong, but I dont have any real track times with the new setup. I was trying to get the issues worked out before I run and get frustrated with my times.

PS I know the clutch is on its way out, but can that cost me hp?

 

I would look at tuning, clutch etc.
What is the back half of your catback consisting of? Are you running a highflow race type muffler? (Ultraflo, race magnum Xr-1?)
Are you running a cutout?
If your clutch is slipping, tune is a little off and your catback isnt super free flowing that will easily eat around 20RWHP no problem. I would look at those areas before swapping the cam.
Cheers,
Chris

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong>I would look at tuning, clutch etc.
What is the back half of your catback consisting of? Are you running a highflow race type muffler? (Ultraflo, race magnum Xr-1?)
Are you running a cutout?
If your clutch is slipping, tune is a little off and your catback isnt super free flowing that will easily eat around 20RWHP no problem. I would look at those areas before swapping the cam.
Cheers,
Chris</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The back half of the catback is an SLP dual-dual exhaust. I also have a cutout. On the dyno, with the cutout open and closed, the car dynoed nearly exactly the same (384.6 vs. 384.7). On previous dynos the difference was about 5rwhp with it open vs. closed.

 

Did you have a wideband setup on the car?
Thanks,
Chris

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong>Did you have a wideband setup on the car?
Thanks,
Chris</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">no wideband, but we ATAP both on the road and at the dyno on the initial dynos. I did not ATAP on the most recent run, but I plan on checking to see where its at on the street tonight

 

What was done to your LS6 intake?

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Terry Burger:
<strong>What was done to your LS6 intake?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mild porting on the Intake.

I did not do it myself, but the person who did it for me tried to talk me out of it, so I wont bring up any names in respect of that fact.

 

If you give me more detail on specifically what "mild porting" is I can tell you if that is hurting you or not. I'd throw a stock LS6 intake on there and dyno to test though.

 

EZSS:

I have almost the same mods as you:
ARE STAGE II HEADS
B1 cam
FLP Headers no cats
Borla Catback
LS6 intake
Ported throttle body
ASP Pulley
ED Wright PCM
Stock clutch (it has not slipped yet)
4.10 gears

I have been to two different dyno's. The first time was with 3.42 gears and my car pulled 388rwhp - air fuel was 13.3 no autotap this time. Then after my 4.10's were installed I pulled 383rwhp - autotap showed all is well. Timing was 25+. I did have nock retard of between .5 & 3 degrees but it disappeared after 5Krpm's. Most of the retard was around 3.5 to 4Krpm's then it gradually went away.

I don't race the car so I have no track times either. After 1,500 miles I broke a valvespring on Saturday (K-Motion K-750's). Know I don't know what to do because I was told that the Comp 918's won't fit on the ARE Heads - 2.055 1.60 valves.

Maybe the ARE heads don't work well with the B1 cam.

 

some of you hp loss have been covered by chris,bob.and terry but you also have a possible problem with the JBA's since you get alot of air in the motorand no change with ot without the cutout open or closed you might be trying to drain lake michigan with a drinking straw but using those headers

Jay

 

I have a similar setup, what is your Rev limiter set at?

 

Mine is set for 6,800rpm

 

My car pulled 410 RWHP 378 RWT on Dynojet. I am waiting on my 12 bolt and have a Cartek clutch. Currently the rev limiter is set at 6800 I am raising it to 7000 while the rear is being done. When car was dyno'd it was still making hp @ 6800. My shift light will come on at 6800.

 

I have ARE heads with 2.02 and 1.57 valves
226/234 cam 112 LSA 554/575 lift
Mac headers with three inch catback and ultraflo

Yank 4L70 tranny (eats about 55RWHP compared to the six speed)
12 bolt with 4.11's and steel DS
17 inch rims and 275's
TP4400 converter
dynoed through full exhaust:
385RWHP and 437RWTQ

Cheers,
Chris

The intake is definitely costing you power. I would put on another LS6 intake. Terry B lost 20/20 I believe porting his LS6 intake.
Cheers,
Chris

<small>[ April 29, 2002, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</small>

 

My rev limiter is 6800 also. With the B1 cam, the power curve flattens out after 6200 and stays flat all the way to the rev limiter.

 

Hard to say...

But I would (1) look at how bad the clutch is slipping because you will see lower #'s because your clutch is not holding all the power.

I would (2) look at the AF ratio via a wideband o2 sensor. Might be lean or too rich but I can't tell if you can't tell.

Either one can cost you the power you are missing.

Similar cars locally are doing 395-410rwhp with an M6.

John
422ci iron ARE
450rwhp unlocked
502rwtq unlocked