it's "hydrotreated" ...so they treat base stock mineral oil with water ? how the **** does that work ??...i'll stick with Mobil, thanx

 

I wouldn't go that far. I'm sure the oil is good. You can't judge a book by it's cover. However it would be nice if they had valid points as to why the oil is better than say Mobil 1 or GC.

 

OEMs have meen mandating that the anti wear ingredients in oils be reduced to extend the life of catalytic converters. Helps with their warranty claims. It is well documented and that's why flat tappet cams are having a hard time living with todays oils.

 

You know the old saying, "opinions are like ********, everybody has one." My ******* is Amsoil, but i'm not the type to preach it to everyone using something different.

I'm not saying all other else is bad, or what I use is he best. I'm not going to change my mind just because a few people say Brand X is better. If something works and has proven itself to me, I will not change just for the sake of trying something different.

 

Hey, here is an idea for that website...why don't they try Mobil1 or any other oil in a car for 5000 miles, then try their stuff for 5000 miles, and do an oil analysis on both oils. Humm, I didn't find any kind of scientific reasoning on the site...just hearsay and empty claims. Hate to sound like a dick, but it's true.

 

i guess i better steal my wifes Crisco Vegetable oil and use it in my car then... maybe after the oil change i can re-use that oil and make some fries... mmmm LS1 flavored fries... now THATS a good selling product..

 

James,

Here is an article from a while back that was " unbiased" but the writer didn't know about us. Good information. Redline is NOT the answer nor is using Diesel oils because even Diesel oils only have ZDP NOT ZDDP. Big difference!. Leave the oil manufacturing to us.


About a year ago I read about the reduction of zinc dithiophosphate (ZDDP) in the oils supplied with API approval that could affect sliding and high pressure (EP) friction in our cars. The reduction of these chemicals in supplied oil was based on the fact that zinc, manganese (magnesium) and/or phosphates reduce the effectiveness and eventually damage catalytic converters and introduce minute amounts of pollutants into our atmosphere.

A month or so ago I had a member of the Columbia Gorge MG Club bring a totally failed camshaft and lifters back to me that had only 900 miles on them!! I immediately contacted the camshaft re-grinder and asked how this could happen. They were well aware of this problem as they were starting to have many failures of this type. In the past, the lack of a molybdenum disulfide camshaft assembly lubricant, at assembly, was about the only thing that could create this type of problem. My customer has assembled many engines and had lubricated the camshaft properly and followed correct break in procedures.

This got me on the phone to Delta Camshaft, one of our major suppliers. Then the bad news came out: It’s today’s “modern” API (American Petroleum Industry) approved oils that are killing our engines.

Next call: To another major camshaft supplier, both stock and performance (Crane). They now have an additive for whatever oil you are using during break-in so that the camshaft and lifters won’t fail in an unreasonably short period of time. They also suggest using a diesel rated oil on flat tappet engines.

Next call: To a racing oil manufacturer that we use for the race cars (Redline). Their response: “We are well aware of the problem and we still use the correct amounts of those additives in our products”. They continued to tell me they are not producing API approved oils so they don’t have to test and comply. Their oils were NOT the “new, improved and approved” ones that destroy flat tappet engines! “We just build the best lubricants possible”. Sounds stupid, doesn’t it, New-Approved but inferior products, but it seems to be true for our cars. (However, they still have problems because it is PAO Based)

To top this off: Our representative from a major supplier of performance and street engine parts (EPWI) stopped by to “warn us” of the problem of the NEW oils on flat tappet engines. This was a call that the representative was making only because of this problem to warn their engine builders! “The reduction of the zinc, manganese and phosphates are causing very early destruction of cams and followers”. They are recommending that, for now at least, there must be a proper oil additive put in the first oil used on new engines, beyond the liberal use of molydisulfide assembly lube. They have been told that the first oil is the time the additives are needed but remain skeptical that the first change is all that is necessary. Their statement: Use diesel rated oils such as Delo or Rotella that are usually available at auto stores and gas stations.

This problem is BIG! American Engine Rebuilder's Association (AERA) Bulletin #TB2333 directly addresses this problem. I had a short discussion with their engineer and he agreed with all that I had been finding.

Next phone call was to a retired engineer from Clevite, a major bearing and component manufacturer. First surprise was that he restored older British Motor bikes. The second surprise was that he was “VERY” aware of this problem because many of the old bikes had rectangular tappets that couldn’t rotate and are having a very large problem with the new oils. He has written an article for the British Bike community that verify all the “bad news” we have been finding.

Comp Cams put out “#225 Tech Bulletin: Flat Tappet Camshafts”. They have both an assembly lube and an oil additive. The telling sentence in the bulletin was “While this additive was originally developed specifically for break-in protection, subsequent testing has proven the durability benefits of its long term use. This special blend of additives promotes proper break-in and protects against premature cam and lifter failure by replacing some of the beneficial ingredients that the oil companies have been required to remove from the off the–shelf oil”.

Next question: Now what do we do?

From the camshaft re-grinders (DeltaCam) “Use oils rated for diesel use”, Delo (Standard Oil product) was named. About the same price as other quality petroleum based oils. They are not API formulated and have the zinc dithiophosphate we need in weights we are familiar with. (This is also being phased out)
and are solvent refined!

From the camshaft manufacturer (Crane): “use our additive” for at least the first 500 miles.

From General Motors (Chevrolet): add EOS, their oil fortifier, to your oil, it’s only about $12.00 for each oil change for an 8 ounce can (This problem seems to be something GM has known about for some time!). (EOS is a viscosity indexer with Moly. Produces acids in the bottom end also doesn't melt in the oil!)

From Redline Oil: Use our street formulated synthetics. They have what we need! (Still PAO based agressive on seals and soluability still bad!!)

From our major oil distributor: Distributing Castrol, Redline, Valvoline and Industrial oils: “After over a week of contacts we have verified that the major oil companies are aware of the problem”. “The representatives of the oil companies today are only aware of marketing programs and have no knowledge of formulation”. The only major oil companies they were aware of for doing anything to address this are Valvoline that is offering an “Off Road 20W-50” and Redline. (Or go with QuantumBlue which is designed for all the aspects based on how you use your vehicle!!)

From Castrol: We are beginning to see a pattern emerging on older cars. It may be advantageous to use a non-approved lubricant, such as oils that are Diesel rated, 4 Cycle Motorcycle oils and other specified diesel oils. (just let us blend you an oil!)

Too many things are starting to show up on this subject and it has cost us money and time. Be aware that “New and Improved”, or even products we have been using for many years, are destroying our cars as it isn’t the same stuff we were getting even a year ago.

For the cars that use “engine oil” in their gearboxes this may(definately does cause a problem!) even pose a problem as these additives that have been removed could be very critical in gear wear. We will be using oil specifically formulated for Manual Gearboxes with Brass Synchronizers. The only oils we are aware of that fit the criteria are from General Motors and Redline. (Neither have the right blends for your cars. The David Vizard article from GM High Tech Performance tells how we compare against these other oils)

If you have any additional input let us know. We need to let every flat tappet engine owner, i.e.: every British Car owner know that things are changing and we MUST meet the challenge.

 

Look Guys .......... I am not a great speller nor do I claim to be . I just thought that maybe since you all have help me alot with my problems I would throw this info your way. Brian the so called sales man . Is more in educating use on what is in the oil . He does sell his own yes , but if you where to talk to him about oil and what is in it as of march 2006 he would be more than happy to tell you about it with out even mentioning his product. He is not out to change the oil industry . Yes he is making money , but what wrong with that . He has a great article in Gm hightech along with other magazines. Most of the articles dont talk his product up like others . They are more to inform you as to what is going on in the industry and what you can do about it. There is no need to knock on me . I too was very unsure of this . Until I talk to him on the phone for a hour before when even talk about his product he told me what was going on and what the effects it takes on your motor..

So take all of this with a Grain of salt if you want. I just thought you would all like to know.

Oh can someone tell me if salt and aluminum mix? If not why is dexcool mostly salt and are motors are aluminum?

Yet another point he made to me.

So all you die hard stick with what is working for you . I am not here to change your mind or sell you on something. Just dont be shitty about it.

 

Are people such bad readers they they cant read something with a few spelling errors... I hate to see people acting like its english class ls1tech.. Maybe I have just been in school too long.

 

So, does this go for all synthetics or dino oil's???

 

That depends. Are we talking about common table salt (NaCl), or are we talking about a high temperature acid salt? (That's what you get when you neutralize certain acids with a base). If that is the case, then YES, they do. Besides, I thought we were talking about motor oil here...

 

In fact, the very antiperspirant that you are wearing right now is an aluminum salt, Aluminum chlorohydrate. Make that point to Brian.

 

Are people so bad at English that they can't even put coherent thoughts together into something that doesn't require the reader to translate what they're trying to say?

While it is true that this isn't English class, it really throws a person's credibility out the window in my eyes if they can't communicate effectively. That's my personal opinion, of course.

 

I can understand it discredits people who type gibberish.. I just hate when people try to use spelling as a discredit to someone’s thoughts, when most of the time its typos.

Anyway no offense to you you have your opinion.



As for on the subject..


antiperspirant--
I actually read the label and use what does not contain that stuff.

Oil-- I use CS 0-30w
I dont know if it had anything to do with the oil but I just had a motor built and the cam bearings fell apart within the first 1000 miles

I dont jump on things until they are proven. Im sure its not so bad that it will kill the engine from buying it. There has just been so much snake oil out there that I think people go right after stuff without even trying to give it a chance. If it has peolpe to back it up then it may be a good product.

If the NHRA and NASCAR actually use this escpecially with them having a sponsor such as castrol which supply free oil already, but had rather use this then thats a credit to this stuff...

Also the guy with the generic bottle stuff.. I have some oil in a awesome looking bottle with a bunch of girls on it... Want to buy it? I mean come on.. A lot of the best stuff out there comes in generic packages... They are so good they dont need to waste there money on advertising with the bottle.

Just IMO .... And Im still on the fence now but with a few oil analysis I may have to change.

 

No, it's not treated with water. The "Hydro" comes from hydrogen. Do a google search on hydrotreating and hydrocracking. It should clear up the ignorance.

Oh BTW, the newest Mobil-1 products are now being hydrotreated too. Be careful of that piece of sky...

Hammer

 

Thanks Tiger!!!!!!!!!!! Brian has all the test you would want . Just give him a call he would be more than happy to send you some.

 

It's a good thing I'm not driving a flat tappet motor....