Help with Cam decision
08-27-2002, 02:52 AM
#1
Help with Cam decision Here’s the deal. 2000 M6 LS1 fitted with TEA Stage 2 heads, a TR 230/224 .569/.563 111 LSA Cam, LS6 Intake and Hooker Long Tube Headers programmed with LS1 Edit. This package has been good for 430rwhp++ for more than a few cars on this board. It works well together and makes power. Now, what about all of the above except with the exchange of a TR 224/224 .561/.561 112 LSA Cam in place of the 230/224. Now how much power are we talking about?
I’m asking because I’m caught up on this decision. My friends are telling me the 230 cam is completely streetable and if it costs the same as the 224 and adds an additional 20rwhp or so, then why not get it? On the other hand, TR themselves are saying it is pushing it and I might not pass emissions. Besides the power I’m looking for a solid, reliable engine that will have the benefits of longevity as well. They say the 230 is a higher revving cam and the power is up top compared to the 224 which has the power down low. Except the handful of owners of the 224 that I spoke to say this cam isn’t making power any earlier than the 230. Is that just a SOTP analyses?
If you look at the specs they aren’t that much different. Yet the 230 is supposed to be good for 15-20rwhp more right? So what gives? Are the cams really that much different? Anyone dynoed both cams on the same car with the same mods? What’s the power curve difference look like? I’m not going to spend hardly anytime in the higher rpm band, as this is really just a fun daily driver and I’m not a serious racer. I want to go fast but I also want my engine to last. Is there a difference in low rpm performance? What’s the idle to 2500 rpm like on the 230 compared to the 224? I’ve heard the 230 really isn’t the right cam for someone who spends most of their time under 2500 rpms and it’s actually even worse on the engine. I've taken into consideration that gearing affects this tremendously. People have said this cam loves 4.30’s and even 4.56’s if you can manage it. I’ll probably stick with the 3.42’s for a while and eventually move to 4.10’s at most in the 10-bolt [like I said, it is just a DD, not a 5000rpm-launch drag car]. For the street, I don’t even see how 4.56’s and the 230 could even keep traction under 75 mph. So will the 230 be the same as the 224 only more powerful or is everyday driving going to be drastically different between the two cams? TIA- Mike W.
<small>[ August 27, 2002, 02:56 AM: Message edited by: SStolen ]</small>
I’m asking because I’m caught up on this decision. My friends are telling me the 230 cam is completely streetable and if it costs the same as the 224 and adds an additional 20rwhp or so, then why not get it? On the other hand, TR themselves are saying it is pushing it and I might not pass emissions. Besides the power I’m looking for a solid, reliable engine that will have the benefits of longevity as well. They say the 230 is a higher revving cam and the power is up top compared to the 224 which has the power down low. Except the handful of owners of the 224 that I spoke to say this cam isn’t making power any earlier than the 230. Is that just a SOTP analyses?
If you look at the specs they aren’t that much different. Yet the 230 is supposed to be good for 15-20rwhp more right? So what gives? Are the cams really that much different? Anyone dynoed both cams on the same car with the same mods? What’s the power curve difference look like? I’m not going to spend hardly anytime in the higher rpm band, as this is really just a fun daily driver and I’m not a serious racer. I want to go fast but I also want my engine to last. Is there a difference in low rpm performance? What’s the idle to 2500 rpm like on the 230 compared to the 224? I’ve heard the 230 really isn’t the right cam for someone who spends most of their time under 2500 rpms and it’s actually even worse on the engine. I've taken into consideration that gearing affects this tremendously. People have said this cam loves 4.30’s and even 4.56’s if you can manage it. I’ll probably stick with the 3.42’s for a while and eventually move to 4.10’s at most in the 10-bolt [like I said, it is just a DD, not a 5000rpm-launch drag car]. For the street, I don’t even see how 4.56’s and the 230 could even keep traction under 75 mph. So will the 230 be the same as the 224 only more powerful or is everyday driving going to be drastically different between the two cams? TIA- Mike W.
<small>[ August 27, 2002, 02:56 AM: Message edited by: SStolen ]</small>
08-27-2002, 05:37 AM
#2
Re: Help with Cam decision Well Mike.. You have asked some good questions.. I would do a search and look for jason99ta.. He has done the cam swaps research you have requested.. Both the TR224 and the TR230/224 cam make great power.. You also have to remember that your heads play a big part in this as well. If they have been slightly milled(.015 to .030) the TR230 should work, but caution is still needed. 15 to 20rwhp difference between the 2 cams. I do not know about that.. It depends on what rpm we are talking about.. There have been cars that dyno'd over 430rwhp with the TR224. So that cam will meet your goal for sure.. Yes you should get better #'s and lose nothing under the curve with the TR230, but tuning is more a factor with the bigger cam. I think you would be happy with either or.. If you have emissions I would play it safe and go with the TR224. If emissions is not a factor.. I would email Jason99ta and take his advice. He will not point you in the wrong direction. As a matter of fact.. If anyone at Thunder tells you to not go with the TR230. Then do not do it..
08-27-2002, 07:54 AM
#3
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Re: Help with Cam decision Listen to what the folks at Thunder Racing are telling you --- this might be a great cam for producing big dyno numbers on some cars, but it doesn't sound like it's a good fit for YOUR car.
First, a reverse-split duration cam will work best on an engine that has both an excellent intake/heads and exhaust system. If you don't have big-valve ported heads and long-tube headers, it's not a good match.
Second, there is no way that cam will pass emissions. Not ever, never. It won't idle worth a crap either, and it will need throttle body and PCM mods to be driveable at all. You should really do some wide-band tuning on a dyno to optimize your A/F ratio, too.
Third, the more intake duration you have, the higher your power band will be. With 3.42's, this cam will be a pig on the street, and you'll constantly be downshifting to keep your revs up. Even a B1 cam is too big for a 3.42 car, IMHO.
Fourth, your gas mileage will suck, big time.
The biggest mistake most guys make when selecting their first cam upgrade is to get seduced by dyno #'s, and go too big, especially for a daily driver. Before you leap into a big $$ cam purchase, drive someone else's car --- one w/ similar mods to yours.
This advice is worth exactly what you paid for it, but it's based on a lot of real-world experience. Take it for what it's worth.
First, a reverse-split duration cam will work best on an engine that has both an excellent intake/heads and exhaust system. If you don't have big-valve ported heads and long-tube headers, it's not a good match.
Second, there is no way that cam will pass emissions. Not ever, never. It won't idle worth a crap either, and it will need throttle body and PCM mods to be driveable at all. You should really do some wide-band tuning on a dyno to optimize your A/F ratio, too.
Third, the more intake duration you have, the higher your power band will be. With 3.42's, this cam will be a pig on the street, and you'll constantly be downshifting to keep your revs up. Even a B1 cam is too big for a 3.42 car, IMHO.
Fourth, your gas mileage will suck, big time.
The biggest mistake most guys make when selecting their first cam upgrade is to get seduced by dyno #'s, and go too big, especially for a daily driver. Before you leap into a big $$ cam purchase, drive someone else's car --- one w/ similar mods to yours.
This advice is worth exactly what you paid for it, but it's based on a lot of real-world experience. Take it for what it's worth.