Why all the Vindicator talk?
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From: Greenup, Kentucky
Why all the Vindicator talk? Why is it that everyone on this board is talking so big about the Vindicator cam lately? I have looked at it and from what I understand, it's just a G5X4 with a wider LSA. Why are people acting like it's revolutionary and new and exciting? I've not read a lot on it... just what I see in passing. So I think I'm missing some information on it. All you guys loving on the Vindicator, what's the scoop that you're so into it over the G5X4?
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But just dyno numbers, which don't account for much since it's well known that shops can manipulate dynos. Track times are what matter. And since dyno numbers are worthless from one dyno to the next, dyno numbers don't explain why all the hype, unless the people hyping it have no common sense about dyno comparisons.
Anybody else have any idea why the hype?
Anybody else have any idea why the hype?
Because dyno numbers sell.
When people see 445 rwhp cam only with an ls6 intake, Vengeance probably had to hire an extra employee to handle the phone calls, email, about this cam
When people see 445 rwhp cam only with an ls6 intake, Vengeance probably had to hire an extra employee to handle the phone calls, email, about this cam
Cams are not just duration and lift and lsa. All the valve events play a big roll. It seems that they designed there cam around there packages thats why there putting the power down. I bet if you looked at a G5X4's and a vindicators cam card there way different. There is new technology out in the world of LSx's that's good for all of us. LG has some type of new cam the put in alignc5's car that made about the same power as vengeance's packages Its just the new tech that someone found out to make a boat load more power.
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From: BFE
Originally Posted by 98SS2836
Cams are not just duration and lift and lsa. All the valve events play a big roll. It seems that they designed there cam around there packages thats why there putting the power down. I bet if you looked at a G5X4's and a vindicators cam card there way different. There is new technology out in the world of LSx's that's good for all of us. LG has some type of new cam the put in alignc5's car that made about the same power as vengeance's packages Its just the new tech that someone found out to make a boat load more power.
There is no magic tech, it is just a matter of utilising the available lobes in the right combo.
Truthfully, most here won't even go to a dragstrip and if they do, a lot of the high dyno cars have a 10 bolt. If you can't launch it at 5400 or more, you aren't going to see what your car is able to do.
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LS1Tech = cam fads LOL....
TR cams... then MSx cams... now this..
-I'm not saying its not a performer but, you have to admit there's a lot of bandwagon cam purchases here. People really need to do their homework before they have a cam ground for their application. FIgure out what kind of useable power they are going to get out of that cam and their combo and then select. Thats why when someone asks the question. " Do I get cam A or cam B" I always reply and tell them..... CUSTOM GRIND and be done with it.... Thats the route I went and have seen so so many people go and they are totally pleased with it. FYI, if you didnt know, Comp's cams are the same price for something off the shelf OR a custom grind. Even with XeR lobes... ask me how I know
-Why get a cam for a DD car with a powerband that goes from 3K-7K and you still have stock manifolds, probably stock converter (for us auto guys) and more than likely untuned also... seriously, how many times are you actually able to open it up past 6K on a given day?? Not trying to be a dick.... just trying to bring some issues into light that a TON of people dont consider when considering/purchasing a cam....
TR cams... then MSx cams... now this..
-I'm not saying its not a performer but, you have to admit there's a lot of bandwagon cam purchases here. People really need to do their homework before they have a cam ground for their application. FIgure out what kind of useable power they are going to get out of that cam and their combo and then select. Thats why when someone asks the question. " Do I get cam A or cam B" I always reply and tell them..... CUSTOM GRIND and be done with it.... Thats the route I went and have seen so so many people go and they are totally pleased with it. FYI, if you didnt know, Comp's cams are the same price for something off the shelf OR a custom grind. Even with XeR lobes... ask me how I know
-Why get a cam for a DD car with a powerband that goes from 3K-7K and you still have stock manifolds, probably stock converter (for us auto guys) and more than likely untuned also... seriously, how many times are you actually able to open it up past 6K on a given day?? Not trying to be a dick.... just trying to bring some issues into light that a TON of people dont consider when considering/purchasing a cam....
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While shops CAN manipulate dyno #s, HONEST shops do not.... Also, DynoJets are calibrated to be within 1% variance from one dyno to the next IF the calibration is kept up to date and accurate. Keep in mind, alot of people dont drag race... Some guys are hard core street racers and some just chase dyno #s... EVERYONE does not go to the track and as said in this thread over half the people modding their engines have zero drivetrain upgrades which make big power absolutely useless...
Dont get me wrong, Im not making excuses... Our DYNO #s have been backed up by quite a few TRACK #s over and over again... 347Fairless is running 121mph in a stock/full weight car cam only... We have quite a few guys running the Vindicator/TFS heads trapping 102/103 in the 1/8 at their local tracks... We have a 98 with 140,000 miles on it with Stage II TEA heads/Vindicator running 10.70s in positive DA...
So yea, there might be some hype on the Vindicator right now, but their are valid reasons for the hype.... We all know dyno #s sell, but so do track times,customer service, quality, honesty, and reputation... All of which we strive to have the best in the business...
Lastly, #s @ .050 mean very little when looking at overall specs of a camshaft
Dont get me wrong, Im not making excuses... Our DYNO #s have been backed up by quite a few TRACK #s over and over again... 347Fairless is running 121mph in a stock/full weight car cam only... We have quite a few guys running the Vindicator/TFS heads trapping 102/103 in the 1/8 at their local tracks... We have a 98 with 140,000 miles on it with Stage II TEA heads/Vindicator running 10.70s in positive DA...
So yea, there might be some hype on the Vindicator right now, but their are valid reasons for the hype.... We all know dyno #s sell, but so do track times,customer service, quality, honesty, and reputation... All of which we strive to have the best in the business...
Lastly, #s @ .050 mean very little when looking at overall specs of a camshaft
Originally Posted by LS1rulz
But just dyno numbers, which don't account for much since it's well known that shops can manipulate dynos. Track times are what matter. And since dyno numbers are worthless from one dyno to the next, dyno numbers don't explain why all the hype, unless the people hyping it have no common sense about dyno comparisons.
Anybody else have any idea why the hype?
Anybody else have any idea why the hype?
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From: Western Burbs of Detroit
The cam I am using is something Louis Gigliotti came up with. It has been installed in several other cars. Camaros, Gto, and my Corvette. Should be released in the near future.
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From: Philly
Went 121 mph with the LS6 intake as Ron said, but my chromoly flywheel and Spec 4 combo just croked after 6000 miles. Think it might have been slipping the whole time. Flywheel was too hard. Not allowing the disc to seat.
Replacing it with a normal aluminum flywheel, exhaust cut-out, and Ported Fast 90 setup from Vengeance. Should add a bit more mph in this pig.
Replacing it with a normal aluminum flywheel, exhaust cut-out, and Ported Fast 90 setup from Vengeance. Should add a bit more mph in this pig.
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From: BFE
Originally Posted by Ron@Vengeance
While shops CAN manipulate dyno #s, HONEST shops do not.... Also, DynoJets are calibrated to be within 1% variance from one dyno to the next IF the calibration is kept up to date and accurate. Keep in mind, alot of people dont drag race... Some guys are hard core street racers and some just chase dyno #s... EVERYONE does not go to the track and as said in this thread over half the people modding their engines have zero drivetrain upgrades which make big power absolutely useless...
Dont get me wrong, Im not making excuses... Our DYNO #s have been backed up by quite a few TRACK #s over and over again... 347Fairless is running 121mph in a stock/full weight car cam only... We have quite a few guys running the Vindicator/TFS heads trapping 102/103 in the 1/8 at their local tracks... We have a 98 with 140,000 miles on it with Stage II TEA heads/Vindicator running 10.70s in positive DA...
So yea, there might be some hype on the Vindicator right now, but their are valid reasons for the hype.... We all know dyno #s sell, but so do track times,customer service, quality, honesty, and reputation... All of which we strive to have the best in the business...
Lastly, #s @ .050 mean very little when looking at overall specs of a camshaft
Dont get me wrong, Im not making excuses... Our DYNO #s have been backed up by quite a few TRACK #s over and over again... 347Fairless is running 121mph in a stock/full weight car cam only... We have quite a few guys running the Vindicator/TFS heads trapping 102/103 in the 1/8 at their local tracks... We have a 98 with 140,000 miles on it with Stage II TEA heads/Vindicator running 10.70s in positive DA...
So yea, there might be some hype on the Vindicator right now, but their are valid reasons for the hype.... We all know dyno #s sell, but so do track times,customer service, quality, honesty, and reputation... All of which we strive to have the best in the business...
Lastly, #s @ .050 mean very little when looking at overall specs of a camshaft
just out of curiosity, do you use proprietary lobes? or XE-R?
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Originally Posted by chae
What are the specs (intake/exhaust duration, lift, LSA) of the vindicator cam? Will it clear with stock heads? Will it clear with Texas Speed Stage 2.5 5.3L heads? Thanks.
With TSP 5.3L, you need to flycut the pistons.
With stock heads, ask 347fairless, he has that cam only, if he did need to flycut.
I dont understand why everyone asks if (X) cam will clear with TSP's stage 2.5 heads.
If you're going to buy a cam and a set of heads- you should buy them from the same place- and a combination which has made proven power. You have to look at flow numbers on the heads and match the cam to those specs. If 347Fairless has gone 121 on stock heads and ls6 intake- why not go with what Vengeance is surely going to suggest- TFS heads for only a few hundred more?
I could care less, but why bother buying heads and a cam from two different shops? Thats kinda like buying real genuine lego brand bricks and then going to the dollar store and buying the off-brand. You're going to get home and find that the off-brand dont fit with the legos quite as well as you'd like. Just think of that when you buy your TSP heads and a VRD Vindicator cam.
If you're going to buy a cam and a set of heads- you should buy them from the same place- and a combination which has made proven power. You have to look at flow numbers on the heads and match the cam to those specs. If 347Fairless has gone 121 on stock heads and ls6 intake- why not go with what Vengeance is surely going to suggest- TFS heads for only a few hundred more?
I could care less, but why bother buying heads and a cam from two different shops? Thats kinda like buying real genuine lego brand bricks and then going to the dollar store and buying the off-brand. You're going to get home and find that the off-brand dont fit with the legos quite as well as you'd like. Just think of that when you buy your TSP heads and a VRD Vindicator cam.
Originally Posted by Specialized
I dont understand why everyone asks if (X) cam will clear with TSP's stage 2.5 heads.
If you're going to buy a cam and a set of heads- you should buy them from the same place- and a combination which has made proven power. You have to look at flow numbers on the heads and match the cam to those specs. If 347Fairless has gone 121 on stock heads and ls6 intake- why not go with what Vengeance is surely going to suggest- TFS heads for only a few hundred more?
I could care less, but why bother buying heads and a cam from two different shops? Thats kinda like buying real genuine lego brand bricks and then going to the dollar store and buying the off-brand. You're going to get home and find that the off-brand dont fit with the legos quite as well as you'd like. Just think of that when you buy your TSP heads and a VRD Vindicator cam.
If you're going to buy a cam and a set of heads- you should buy them from the same place- and a combination which has made proven power. You have to look at flow numbers on the heads and match the cam to those specs. If 347Fairless has gone 121 on stock heads and ls6 intake- why not go with what Vengeance is surely going to suggest- TFS heads for only a few hundred more?
I could care less, but why bother buying heads and a cam from two different shops? Thats kinda like buying real genuine lego brand bricks and then going to the dollar store and buying the off-brand. You're going to get home and find that the off-brand dont fit with the legos quite as well as you'd like. Just think of that when you buy your TSP heads and a VRD Vindicator cam.
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Matching them isn't dependent upon buying them from the same place. That's just silly. You can match the performance yourself by checking them out.
As for specs, from what I've read, the Vindicator is the same duration as the G5X4:
240/244. But where the G5X4 is on a 111+3, I'm not really sure on the Vindicator. 112?
Also, the G5X4 is on XE-R lobes, so just look at the XE-R lobes list and find the lift for those duration lobes. Now Ron says that there's something special about the Vindicator's lobes, but hasn't replied yet about that. Still waiting. I'm very interested, since it's making such great numbers.
As for specs, from what I've read, the Vindicator is the same duration as the G5X4:
240/244. But where the G5X4 is on a 111+3, I'm not really sure on the Vindicator. 112?
Also, the G5X4 is on XE-R lobes, so just look at the XE-R lobes list and find the lift for those duration lobes. Now Ron says that there's something special about the Vindicator's lobes, but hasn't replied yet about that. Still waiting. I'm very interested, since it's making such great numbers.