Cam install in progress...ran into problems
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Launching!
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: British Columbia, Canada
Cam install in progress...ran into problems My car has been at the shop now for 2 days....they went to put the springs on (Patriot double springs) and they can use the right spring compressor w/o taking the heads off....now I have to get the heads off, new gaskets and all that....the simple cam swap is turning into a nightmare.
So, as for the heads..I dont wanna spend 3g's on new AFR's....so, the shop said they would "port match em" while they are out. Is this gonna help much??? What will that do?
And for info, i am putting in a TR 224 Cam.
Thx for any insight.
So, as for the heads..I dont wanna spend 3g's on new AFR's....so, the shop said they would "port match em" while they are out. Is this gonna help much??? What will that do?
And for info, i am putting in a TR 224 Cam.
Thx for any insight.
DO NOT agree to let the shop pull the heads. Springs have been done thousands of times, even in member's driveways, without having to take off the heads. They are either 1. incompetent to do the job, or 2 (which is most likely) trying to rip you off on a shitty porting job and extra labor for the heads.
You'll just end up with ported LS6 heads really. That's money that you could put towards a better set of heads. There are some great heads out there that are cheaper and outperform AFR's.
With all the money you've spent on parts and now labor, you could have gotten a good assembled head AND cam package for just a little over 1k and be better than ported LS6 heads.
With all the money you've spent on parts and now labor, you could have gotten a good assembled head AND cam package for just a little over 1k and be better than ported LS6 heads.
You'll just end up with ported LS6 heads really. That's money that you could put towards a better set of heads. There are some great heads out there that are cheaper and outperform AFR's.
With all the money you've spent on parts and now labor, you could have gotten a good assembled head AND cam package for just a little over 1k and be better than ported LS6 heads.
What you got will make power, I just would have gone a different route.
With all the money you've spent on parts and now labor, you could have gotten a good assembled head AND cam package for just a little over 1k and be better than ported LS6 heads.
What you got will make power, I just would have gone a different route.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 284
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From: British Columbia, Canada
The shop guy (i do trust him, he didnt want to get the heads off) says the problem is that the cpmpressor cant compress the inner spring of the two, the tool he uses to do both cant be done with the heads on the engine and the minimal amount of room under the hood.
Now, also is this port matching thing gonna pick up some more power???
Now, also is this port matching thing gonna pick up some more power???
Originally Posted by black00ssFL
DO NOT agree to let the shop pull the heads. Springs have been done thousands of times, even in member's driveways, without having to take off the heads. They are either 1. incompetent to do the job, or 2 (which is most likely) trying to rip you off on a shitty porting job and extra labor for the heads.
Now that I thought a little more about it. At least don't let them port your heads. A cam swap is a cam swap when you are paying a shop to do it. They run their labor rates based on the listed hours it should take to do the swap. If THEY had to take of the heads to change the springs...that's their problem, not yours. YOU pay what the estimated labor is for a cam swap....not a head swap, cause that's all you wanted done. They are trying to port the heads with your approval to JUSTIFY taking the heads off and charging the labor for that.
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Originally Posted by soontobeLS1
The shop guy (i do trust him, he didnt want to get the heads off) says the problem is that the cpmpressor cant compress the inner spring of the two, the tool he uses to do both cant be done with the heads on the engine and the minimal amount of room under the hood.
Now, also is this port matching thing gonna pick up some more power???
Now, also is this port matching thing gonna pick up some more power???
Again....if HE is unable to do it, that's HIS problem. All you are obligated to pay is the labor for a cam swap. He is the one with only one type of tool to work with. There are many tools to use to swap cams, he just has the wrong one for your car. And yes there is power to be made...but as hinted before, not worth the labor for the head swap and port job you'll be paying.
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Launching!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 284
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From: British Columbia, Canada
As for the port matching, he didnt suggest it, I just made a suggestion stating, well since the heads are off....can something be done.
I am getting in further than I wanted now...
I am getting in further than I wanted now...
Originally Posted by soontobeLS1
As for the port matching, he didnt suggest it, I just made a suggestion stating, well since the heads are off....can something be done.
I am getting in further than I wanted now...
I am getting in further than I wanted now...
I don't see why people upgrade the stock valvetrain on stock heads really, I mean with the competition out there, not only for performance, but price on LSX heads...After parts, tools, accessories, and labor whether you do it yourself or have someone else do it, it makes more sense to just bolt on some quality assembled heads.
Save yourself the hassle, just go for the power, and know you didn't settle for less.
<-----Is looking at TSP H/C packages.
You would come out cheaper by just buying the correct tool and giving it to the shop. I gotta hollar BULLSHIT. People change double spings everyday with the heads on, Sounds like the shop your using doesn't work on a lot of LS1s. Its like me trying to change the oil pressure sending unit a couple of weeks ago. If you didn't buy the correct thin wall socket that was made to install the sending unit. It didn't happen. Uncle Joes old spring compresser isn't gonna work. You need one like More Performance
use to sell when they were still open. Most people just make their own. Do a search.
use to sell when they were still open. Most people just make their own. Do a search.
This will work... 120 bucks should be less than pulling the heads. If you pull the heads, replace 'em.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku
here a in car spring compressor from lingenfleter for only $130
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Corve...mZ150148027863
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Corve...mZ150148027863
I can't believe that, don't pay extra for that. If they are off now and still have the option to bolt on some new ones, DO IT! Would pretty much multiply your gains of the cam by 2 for a rough idea. Porting the stockers will make some more power but not worth it. Unless you were doing it yourself and knew what you were doing. Even then I still wouldn't bother. For just over 1 G you could have some nice heads and a nice ride too! It seems like a guy always has to do more than he expected even though you shouldn't have had to in your case. Good luck, I was once told several times by a mechanic about KISS..........keep it stock stupid............thought about it for a minute.........Screw that though. Horsepower is more addictive than alcohol
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 284
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From: British Columbia, Canada
Yes, I agree with the KISS thing...but how could I.
The only way i woiuld get a new set of heads would be AFR's i wouldn't cheap out on them. But that is way more money than i wanted to spend. I just wanted cam/410's for now...I will most likely do FI in the future.
Thx for all replies....as for the special tool, the heads are halway off now...and i woulnd't get the tool for a bit (i am in canada). I am sick of waitin for parts.
The only way i woiuld get a new set of heads would be AFR's i wouldn't cheap out on them. But that is way more money than i wanted to spend. I just wanted cam/410's for now...I will most likely do FI in the future.
Thx for all replies....as for the special tool, the heads are halway off now...and i woulnd't get the tool for a bit (i am in canada). I am sick of waitin for parts.
TECH Addict
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Bergen County, NJ
You may trust this guy but he clearly does not know what he is doing. Since they already started to rmove the heads I fear you are in for a long ride. If the springs gave them trouble - wait till they get to the headbolt sequence. If it were me the car would be on its way to another shop.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 284
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From: British Columbia, Canada
Yes, I was reading about the head bolt tourquing sequence...they mentioned that and seemed to know what they were talking about the i bleieve it was "trq to yld". Is it pretty hard with the minimal amount of room under the firewall area?
Seems to me, once he gets the springs on, then its re-install time.
I will post up when I know more.
Thx for the help and insight thus far.
Seems to me, once he gets the springs on, then its re-install time.
I will post up when I know more.
Thx for the help and insight thus far.
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 284
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From: British Columbia, Canada
At this point now, would it not be easier to just get a set of AFR's shipped qwik? Do the heads comes with the special gaskets/head bolts etc?
I would just re-use the stock rockers is I am sure that is fine also.
I am sure the TR224 is still a good cam for those heads.
That is just my latest thought for now, since the heads are coming off anyways.
I would just re-use the stock rockers is I am sure that is fine also.
I am sure the TR224 is still a good cam for those heads.
That is just my latest thought for now, since the heads are coming off anyways.
<-----installer must be FRENCH 