Jesel SS Series Rockers Problem
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Jesel SS Series Rockers Problem I was setting up my valvetrain for my new LPE 403 and found this problem purely because I had the heads off and did it on the bench this time. As I was checking the wipe pattern to set the shim height I was using my dial indicator to measure the valve lift of the new cam, which is .610". As I approached .560" lift the rockers seemed to bind and go no further. I was like, wft? Upon further investigation I found the rockers were bottoming out and indeed binding on the mounting rails. The cam I was running was a .581"/.588" cam. Can you imagine what would have happened if I ran these with my new cam? You will notice that I undercut them previously with a flycutter to get more clearance with the retainers as they were binding on those as well. However, I didn't have a way of judging clearance on the trunion bottom while the heads were mounted.
One other thing I noticed was that even though my car started and ran very quiet as far as the valvetrain goes, my lifters would always bleed down and after it warmed up was very noisey. I think this would explain that, and also my valve guides were worn out after only 6k miles. I've read on here that some complained about thier Jesel lifters floating or flexing. I'm willing to bet they have a similar or the same problem.
Dimples in the steel mounting rail:
Dimples in the trunion bottom. Also notice where the mounting rail bolt has interfered with and cut dimples into the center of the trunion bottom:
One other thing I noticed was that even though my car started and ran very quiet as far as the valvetrain goes, my lifters would always bleed down and after it warmed up was very noisey. I think this would explain that, and also my valve guides were worn out after only 6k miles. I've read on here that some complained about thier Jesel lifters floating or flexing. I'm willing to bet they have a similar or the same problem.
Dimples in the steel mounting rail:
Dimples in the trunion bottom. Also notice where the mounting rail bolt has interfered with and cut dimples into the center of the trunion bottom:
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I think flycutting the rockers was a mistake. The interference between rocker and retainer was an indication that geometry was wrong - pushrod length wrong or pedestal height wrong. Maybe valve tip was too deep in retainer.
Last edited by Gary Z; Feb 23, 2008 at 12:23 PM.
Are you serious? This is a common problem when using a double spring or any oversize spring. The right thing to do is clearance the rocker, been done for years on SBCs.
Yes this is almost certainly what is causing your guides premature wear.
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Also, I have to agree with KCFormula. Although I didn't want to clearance them, I've read of a few shops that clearance them because of this.
I could put them back in the milling machine and take off some of the corner at the base, but I chose to put these on the shelf for a minute and bought a set of the new Yella Terra Ultra light rockers.
I put this up as an FYI to others that may be running Jesel's and may be experiencing problems, or at the very least to check this just in case.
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Jesel's response I talked to tech at Jesel. This is what they said, not quoting. The SS Series rockers are only intended as a replacement for the stock rockers and are not designed to be used in the application of larger cams than stock lifts. They recommend the adjustable SS Series for lifts higher than oem.
Having heard that, I remember reading on the install page or the literature that they are designed for stock replacement only, or something like that.
I then asked what they would recommend as I now have an expensive rocker system I can't use in my current application. They recommended I take off what is necessary from the rail to get the lift clearance I need and not machine the rocker. This seems reasonable at first, however I am still getting interference from the stand mounting bolt heads on the rockers also, as can be seen in the pictures. So it looks like I will have to machine the stands about .050" off the lands surrounding the mounting bolts, and then counterbore the mounting bolt holes .050". For anyone using SS Series non-adjustable rockers please check your maximum lift height. Again, I found approx. .560" lift to be the maximum before interference occurs in my application.
Having heard that, I remember reading on the install page or the literature that they are designed for stock replacement only, or something like that.
I then asked what they would recommend as I now have an expensive rocker system I can't use in my current application. They recommended I take off what is necessary from the rail to get the lift clearance I need and not machine the rocker. This seems reasonable at first, however I am still getting interference from the stand mounting bolt heads on the rockers also, as can be seen in the pictures. So it looks like I will have to machine the stands about .050" off the lands surrounding the mounting bolts, and then counterbore the mounting bolt holes .050". For anyone using SS Series non-adjustable rockers please check your maximum lift height. Again, I found approx. .560" lift to be the maximum before interference occurs in my application.
Jesel makes good stuff, but one size does not always fit all. The SS rockers will work with larger cams, but need to be setup correctly. I know guys who have been running them for years.
I talked to tech at Jesel. This is what they said, not quoting. The SS Series rockers are only intended as a replacement for the stock rockers and are not designed to be used in the application of larger cams than stock lifts. They recommend the adjustable SS Series for lifts higher than oem.
Having heard that, I remember reading on the install page or the literature that they are designed for stock replacement only, or something like that.
I then asked what they would recommend as I now have an expensive rocker system I can't use in my current application. They recommended I take off what is necessary from the rail to get the lift clearance I need and not machine the rocker. This seems reasonable at first, however I am still getting interference from the stand mounting bolt heads on the rockers also, as can be seen in the pictures. So it looks like I will have to machine the stands about .050" off the lands surrounding the mounting bolts, and then counterbore the mounting bolt holes .050". For anyone using SS Series non-adjustable rockers please check your maximum lift height. Again, I found approx. .560" lift to be the maximum before interference occurs in my application.
Having heard that, I remember reading on the install page or the literature that they are designed for stock replacement only, or something like that.
I then asked what they would recommend as I now have an expensive rocker system I can't use in my current application. They recommended I take off what is necessary from the rail to get the lift clearance I need and not machine the rocker. This seems reasonable at first, however I am still getting interference from the stand mounting bolt heads on the rockers also, as can be seen in the pictures. So it looks like I will have to machine the stands about .050" off the lands surrounding the mounting bolts, and then counterbore the mounting bolt holes .050". For anyone using SS Series non-adjustable rockers please check your maximum lift height. Again, I found approx. .560" lift to be the maximum before interference occurs in my application.
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Agree 100% on Jesel quality. I love they rail mounting system and true shaft mount. It's the reason I bought them, and the reason I'm trying to get them set up correctly. By 'setup correctly' do you mean they have machined them to the application? What was the solution?
This is what the Jesel instructions state:
THE LS1 AND LS6 SPORTSMAN
SERIES ROCKER KITS DO NOT
HAVE AN ADJUSTABLE PUSHROD
CUP. THEY ARE DESIGNED FOR USE
ON A STOCK ENGINE WITH A
FACTORY HYDRAULIC-ROLLER
CAMSHAFT. IF THE CAM HAS BEEN
UPGRADED OR THE HEADS HAVE
BEEN MILLED THE ONLY WAY TO
ACHIEVE THE PROPER GEOMETRY IS
WITH DIFFERENT LENGTH PUSHRODS.
JESEL INCLUDES A PUSHROD LENGTH
CHECKER WITH THE ROCKER KIT TO AID
WITH THIS MEASUREMENT AND STOCKS A
HOST OF DIFFERENT PUSHROD LENGTHS
AND TYPES FOR ALL ENGINE MAKES.
I have a brand new set that I am trying to sell. I have decided to go with the J2K models instead.
Sorry to dig up an old thread but just saw this. Just wondering if someone can give me a way to check the Jesel SS Series non adjustable rockers on my setup with the heads off the car. I have TFS 215's milled to 61cc, cam 232/236 .595/.578 113+3, and Jesel KSS-307070. Can I mock this up off the car somehow to check before my install?
You can check spring and rail clearance off of the motor, but the main thing you are going to have to do is get the push rod length and wipe pattern correct. Kinda hard to do off of the engine
I know I can't get pushrod length off the car. I am going to try and check clearances and wipe pattern anyway since I have a few weeks before install. When I bought mine Jesel first recommended the J2K's for my setup but they were twice as expensive. When I pushed them for a less expensive alternative they gave me the Sportsmen Series part number and said they would be fine....but just were not adjustable. I have heard the Yella Terra's geometry was not ideal with my TFS 215's so I decided to try them.
We will see!
We will see!
