Help me cook up a custom grind cam
09-08-2003, 01:02 AM
#21
Re: Help me cook up a custom grind cam
All TR cams are made by Comp using comp lobes.
09-08-2003, 02:17 AM
#22
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Re: Help me cook up a custom grind cam There are no XE-R lobes that are odd numbered(221) or that have lift below .581". Also, there is no 222 XE-R lobe.
It sounds like a less lift more aggressive version of the MTI stealth cam, if you ask me.
the guy asked for help cooking up a custom cam... not one that is already being made...
i think a combo like this would make realy good power and in a very usable band...
i might just get one ground just to see if i was right on this, but if he or anyone does try it out i would love to see what ya put up for #'s
09-08-2003, 11:29 AM
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Re: Help me cook up a custom grind cam yup thats just what i was going for ...
the guy asked for help cooking up a custom cam... not one that is already being made...
i think a combo like this would make realy good power and in a very usable band...
i might just get one ground just to see if i was right on this, but if he or anyone does try it out i would love to see what ya put up for #'s
You'll never notice the power difference between a 221 cam and a 220 cam. Also, the TR lobes are not off the shelf comp lobes. I believe Comp does do the grinding, but they are TR specs. They have ramp rates similar to the XE-Rs but with less lift. They are right in between XE and XE-R.As for the 220/220 custom grind, I'd like to see proof that it makes more power across the board than a TR224
09-08-2003, 07:07 PM
#24
Re: Help me cook up a custom grind cam Why pay the extra money to have comp design a custom lobe thats not going to produce a noticeable amount more power than one they already make
You'll never notice the power difference between a 221 cam and a 220 cam.
Also, the TR lobes are not off the shelf comp lobes. I believe Comp does do the grinding, but they are TR specs. They have ramp rates similar to the XE-Rs but with less lift. They are right in between XE and XE-R.
As for the 220/220 custom grind, I'd like to see proof that it makes more power across the board than a TR224
09-08-2003, 07:53 PM
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Re: Help me cook up a custom grind cam I have the Compcams Master Lobe catalog.
TR's cams ALL use Comp lobes. Untill recently all of their lobes offered were off-shelf lobes. For instance, the TR224 lobes are XE-high lift Comp lobes that anyone can order. Most of the lobes TR uses are the XE-High lift lobes. Nothing special about them. The Comp 224/224 cam is the exact same thing as the TR cam. Both have the same amount of advance built in.
TR does have a few proprietary lobes that Comp is not suppose to use on any other cams aside from TR's. But...having seen these lobes...there's nothing special about them.
Ask the head Comp Tech who designed most of their bad-*** Hydaulic race lobes....it's the same guy I learned a LOT of my **** from. I comobined his knowledge of lobes with Brian Eberts expert knowledge of VE's...& that's what you get with one of my grinds...best of both worlds with no comprimises.
IMO TR uses excellent lobes & some of their lobe combinations are quite good...but they don't have good VE's. In fact, only one of their cams has the correct ICL for the lobes/lsa....& it's their best cam hands down. (although not the best seller)
BTW, the XE-R lobes can be had in every 2 degree increments from 220 all the way up to 248...& above if you know what you're doing.
TR's cams ALL use Comp lobes. Untill recently all of their lobes offered were off-shelf lobes. For instance, the TR224 lobes are XE-high lift Comp lobes that anyone can order. Most of the lobes TR uses are the XE-High lift lobes. Nothing special about them. The Comp 224/224 cam is the exact same thing as the TR cam. Both have the same amount of advance built in.
TR does have a few proprietary lobes that Comp is not suppose to use on any other cams aside from TR's. But...having seen these lobes...there's nothing special about them.
Ask the head Comp Tech who designed most of their bad-*** Hydaulic race lobes....it's the same guy I learned a LOT of my **** from. I comobined his knowledge of lobes with Brian Eberts expert knowledge of VE's...& that's what you get with one of my grinds...best of both worlds with no comprimises.
IMO TR uses excellent lobes & some of their lobe combinations are quite good...but they don't have good VE's. In fact, only one of their cams has the correct ICL for the lobes/lsa....& it's their best cam hands down. (although not the best seller)
BTW, the XE-R lobes can be had in every 2 degree increments from 220 all the way up to 248...& above if you know what you're doing.
09-08-2003, 08:30 PM
#26
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Re: Help me cook up a custom grind cam I would stay away from XE-R series cams For streetablilty like you are looking for. I love mine for the power and idle time to go bigger. And big bore too.
BTW Does someone have the Comp grind sheet available? I lost mine. Maybe email it to me. transam98ramair@aol.com
BTW Does someone have the Comp grind sheet available? I lost mine. Maybe email it to me. transam98ramair@aol.com
09-08-2003, 10:59 PM
#27
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Re: Help me cook up a custom grind cam
I have the Compcams Master Lobe catalog.
TR's cams ALL use Comp lobes. Untill recently all of their lobes offered were off-shelf lobes. For instance, the TR224 lobes are XE-high lift Comp lobes that anyone can order. Most of the lobes TR uses are the XE-High lift lobes. Nothing special about them. The Comp 224/224 cam is the exact same thing as the TR cam. Both have the same amount of advance built in.
TR does have a few proprietary lobes that Comp is not suppose to use on any other cams aside from TR's. But...having seen these lobes...there's nothing special about them.
Ask the head Comp Tech who designed most of their bad-*** Hydaulic race lobes....it's the same guy I learned a LOT of my **** from. I comobined his knowledge of lobes with Brian Eberts expert knowledge of VE's...& that's what you get with one of my grinds...best of both worlds with no comprimises.
IMO TR uses excellent lobes & some of their lobe combinations are quite good...but they don't have good VE's. In fact, only one of their cams has the correct ICL for the lobes/lsa....& it's their best cam hands down. (although not the best seller)
TR's cams ALL use Comp lobes. Untill recently all of their lobes offered were off-shelf lobes. For instance, the TR224 lobes are XE-high lift Comp lobes that anyone can order. Most of the lobes TR uses are the XE-High lift lobes. Nothing special about them. The Comp 224/224 cam is the exact same thing as the TR cam. Both have the same amount of advance built in.
TR does have a few proprietary lobes that Comp is not suppose to use on any other cams aside from TR's. But...having seen these lobes...there's nothing special about them.
Ask the head Comp Tech who designed most of their bad-*** Hydaulic race lobes....it's the same guy I learned a LOT of my **** from. I comobined his knowledge of lobes with Brian Eberts expert knowledge of VE's...& that's what you get with one of my grinds...best of both worlds with no comprimises.
IMO TR uses excellent lobes & some of their lobe combinations are quite good...but they don't have good VE's. In fact, only one of their cams has the correct ICL for the lobes/lsa....& it's their best cam hands down. (although not the best seller)
I would appreciate it if you would stop spreading misinformation. Our 224 does NOT use the XE lobes. The lobes we use are much more agressive for a given lift than the XE series lobes that Comp uses. If you actually had measured a cam on a Cam Pro Plus you might realize that there is more to cam design than just what you have read about in Comp's catalog. All of our cams are dyno tested and not just promoted without proof of their performance in spite of the fact that in theory 'we have incorrect VE's.'Let's just say that 2 weekends ago I had a customer who came to me for tuning that bought a cam that was 'just like the TR 224' from a very prominent sponsor on this board. The car with said sponsor's Stage 2 heads wouldn't break 380 RWHP. Later on in the week I did a cam only '98 TA that did 372 RWHP with our 224 cam with completely stock heads. I think that speaks volumes about the clone cam. The XE lobe series doesn't have the power potential of our lobes.
09-08-2003, 11:54 PM
#28
Re: Help me cook up a custom grind cam Our 224 does NOT use the XE lobes. The lobes we use are much more agressive for a given lift than the XE series lobes that Comp uses.
09-09-2003, 12:42 AM
#29
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Re: Help me cook up a custom grind cam
I have the Compcams Master Lobe catalog.
TR's cams ALL use Comp lobes. Untill recently all of their lobes offered were off-shelf lobes. For instance, the TR224 lobes are XE-high lift Comp lobes that anyone can order. Most of the lobes TR uses are the XE-High lift lobes. Nothing special about them. The Comp 224/224 cam is the exact same thing as the TR cam. Both have the same amount of advance built in.
TR does have a few proprietary lobes that Comp is not suppose to use on any other cams aside from TR's. But...having seen these lobes...there's nothing special about them.
Ask the head Comp Tech who designed most of their bad-*** Hydaulic race lobes....it's the same guy I learned a LOT of my **** from. I comobined his knowledge of lobes with Brian Eberts expert knowledge of VE's...& that's what you get with one of my grinds...best of both worlds with no comprimises.
IMO TR uses excellent lobes & some of their lobe combinations are quite good...but they don't have good VE's. In fact, only one of their cams has the correct ICL for the lobes/lsa....& it's their best cam hands down. (although not the best seller)
TR's cams ALL use Comp lobes. Untill recently all of their lobes offered were off-shelf lobes. For instance, the TR224 lobes are XE-high lift Comp lobes that anyone can order. Most of the lobes TR uses are the XE-High lift lobes. Nothing special about them. The Comp 224/224 cam is the exact same thing as the TR cam. Both have the same amount of advance built in.
TR does have a few proprietary lobes that Comp is not suppose to use on any other cams aside from TR's. But...having seen these lobes...there's nothing special about them.
Ask the head Comp Tech who designed most of their bad-*** Hydaulic race lobes....it's the same guy I learned a LOT of my **** from. I comobined his knowledge of lobes with Brian Eberts expert knowledge of VE's...& that's what you get with one of my grinds...best of both worlds with no comprimises.
IMO TR uses excellent lobes & some of their lobe combinations are quite good...but they don't have good VE's. In fact, only one of their cams has the correct ICL for the lobes/lsa....& it's their best cam hands down. (although not the best seller)
I would appreciate it if you would stop spreading misinformation. Our 224 does NOT use the XE lobes. The lobes we use are much more agressive for a given lift than the XE series lobes that Comp uses. If you actually had measured a cam on a Cam Pro Plus you might realize that there is more to cam design than just what you have read about in Comp's catalog. All of our cams are dyno tested and not just promoted without proof of their performance in spite of the fact that in theory 'we have incorrect VE's.'Let's just say that 2 weekends ago I had a customer who came to me for tuning that bought a cam that was 'just like the TR 224' from a very prominent sponsor on this board. The car with said sponsor's Stage 2 heads wouldn't break 380 RWHP. Later on in the week I did a cam only '98 TA that did 372 RWHP with our 224 cam with completely stock heads. I think that speaks volumes about the clone cam. The XE lobe series doesn't have the power potential of our lobes.
372 RWHP is weak from a 224 cam. I run a 220/220 that was designed by 93PONY and made 395 RWHP and 378 RWTQ with stock heads and no tuning. My A/F was 13.8. Also, I hope the guys at TR aren't trying to dog COMP Cams. I am sure that the techs at Comp are far more noligable and experienced than the techs at Thunder. Check the Comp high lift lobes. They are the same as the TR 224 lobes. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck its a duck. And yes a lot of TR cams have weak valve events for a fuel injected motor. That's why I make more power with a smaller cam.
09-09-2003, 02:58 AM
#30
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Re: Help me cook up a custom grind cam yup thats just what i was going for ...
the guy asked for help cooking up a custom cam... not one that is already being made...
i think a combo like this would make realy good power and in a very usable band...
i might just get one ground just to see if i was right on this, but if he or anyone does try it out i would love to see what ya put up for #'s
You'll never notice the power difference between a 221 cam and a 220 cam. Also, the TR lobes are not off the shelf comp lobes. I believe Comp does do the grinding, but they are TR specs. They have ramp rates similar to the XE-Rs but with less lift. They are right in between XE and XE-R.As for the 220/220 custom grind, I'd like to see proof that it makes more power across the board than a TR224
what part of HE ASKED for a CUSTOM grind didn't you read???
he didn't ask hey guys which sponcer cam that everyone already has should i run....
geez....
as for the 372 hp cam only car...
please tell me it had manifolds and did not have all the bolt ons???
i made 382 on stock pulley stock heads stock tb no short belt on 17" nittos
i dont brag about that... i wouldn't brag about 372 at all...(oh yeh thats comp xe-r 224)
why the hell does everyone get so dramatic over cams pulling bs cards on anyone who trys to help alittle but isn't a walking talking dictionary....
and as far as YOU know you wont see any dif between the cam i thought up and the 220 cam in your head... maybe and maybe not... you cant say you know cause i know you haven't tryed it
all i was going for was a 220to222 duration mid lift very agressive ramp cam with 115 lsa.... if one exhists fine if it dont it should...
emmissions legal, good power that comes early in the band, smooth idle, and hard to detect...
what is so wronge with that to you??? cause its not the cam you have???
and i never said that a custom 220 makes more power then a 224 (i have a 224) but not everyone wants the lope that a 224 makes some want decent power ,alittle more then most street cars so they never have to worry that thay dont have enough to pull away from some turbo ricer...
but they dont hang out at the track(i do) and think about nothing but squeezing that last .1 out of there car(i do)
some dont ... some do ...
some might just wanna try something new something thats not tried and true something noone else has ... those are the kind of ppl that made our cars as quik as they are now...
i have very little bad to say about othere ppl
why the hell you wanna start **** with me?
09-09-2003, 01:49 PM
#31
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Re: Help me cook up a custom grind cam
Also, I hope the guys at TR aren't trying to dog COMP Cams. I am sure that the techs at Comp are far more noligable and experienced than the techs at Thunder. Check the Comp high lift lobes. They are the same as the TR 224 lobes. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck its a duck. And yes a lot of TR cams have weak valve events for a fuel injected motor. That's why I make more power with a smaller cam.
jaberwaki-I'm not trying to start anything with you. I just said that I didnt agree with what you posted. Thats what this board is for. I didnt personally attack you in any way. That 220 cam thing wasnt even directed at you, but unfortunately this BB doesnt put names next to quote.
09-09-2003, 02:28 PM
#32
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Re: Help me cook up a custom grind cam Let's not give out erroneous info regarding what sponsors use for cam lobes.
I think a 220/220//115 would idle great and it will pass emissions like crazy.
I think a 220/220//115 would idle great and it will pass emissions like crazy.
09-09-2003, 03:03 PM
#33
Re: Help me cook up a custom grind cam
Why pay the extra money to have comp design a custom lobe thats not going to produce a noticeable amount more power than one they already make
09-09-2003, 06:52 PM
#34
Re: Help me cook up a custom grind cam
Why pay the extra money to have comp design a custom lobe thats not going to produce a noticeable amount more power than one they already make
09-09-2003, 08:54 PM
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Re: Help me cook up a custom grind cam Geoff:
Prove it.
Post a 'Cam Pro' printout of one of your propritary lobes....if not post it, E-mail it to me. I know the specs/ramprates of the XE line.
Post the differences of the lobes at .006, .100, .150, .200, etc.
Hell...just post the .006 duration & I will be able to find the ramprate of the lobe & tell whether it's larger or smaller then the XE-highlift series lobes. Or where in the entire XE line of lobes it falls. Whether it's a modified SBC lobe....or a modified Ford lobe for that matter.
Just prove it & I will back off.
Prove it.
Post a 'Cam Pro' printout of one of your propritary lobes....if not post it, E-mail it to me. I know the specs/ramprates of the XE line.
Post the differences of the lobes at .006, .100, .150, .200, etc.
Hell...just post the .006 duration & I will be able to find the ramprate of the lobe & tell whether it's larger or smaller then the XE-highlift series lobes. Or where in the entire XE line of lobes it falls. Whether it's a modified SBC lobe....or a modified Ford lobe for that matter.
Just prove it & I will back off.
09-09-2003, 10:52 PM
#37
Re: Help me cook up a custom grind cam 93pony,
Have any of the cars you designed a cam for dynoed with a true AF reading? The one I have seen (220/220 cam) was anywhere from15.0-13.8 and he didn't even post a graph on Norcal-LS1.. When I see a dyno graph and a track pass of a cam you designed I might start looking at your grinds. Not saying you don't have knowledge, but your cams aren't proved at all yet. TR's are proven and solid as many other sponsors on this board. Lets see some dyno sheets.. Let's see some track results..
Have any of the cars you designed a cam for dynoed with a true AF reading? The one I have seen (220/220 cam) was anywhere from15.0-13.8 and he didn't even post a graph on Norcal-LS1.. When I see a dyno graph and a track pass of a cam you designed I might start looking at your grinds. Not saying you don't have knowledge, but your cams aren't proved at all yet. TR's are proven and solid as many other sponsors on this board. Lets see some dyno sheets.. Let's see some track results..
09-09-2003, 11:53 PM
#38
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Re: Help me cook up a custom grind cam Interesting thread, lots of bs, lots of info.
So, where are the specs on this magical 220 cam that puts out more power than a TR224?
Also, which TR cam has the "good" claimed VE? I'm just curious, even if it's not true.
Imo a 220/220/115 would idle great and make good power, even without lift to the moon.
Lastly, how do we know that's not a 1-800 what are you wearing number???
So, where are the specs on this magical 220 cam that puts out more power than a TR224?
Also, which TR cam has the "good" claimed VE? I'm just curious, even if it's not true.
Imo a 220/220/115 would idle great and make good power, even without lift to the moon.
Lastly, how do we know that's not a 1-800 what are you wearing number???
09-09-2003, 11:55 PM
#39
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Re: Help me cook up a custom grind cam
93pony,
Have any of the cars you designed a cam for dynoed with a true AF reading? The one I have seen (220/220 cam) was anywhere from15.0-13.8 and he didn't even post a graph on Norcal-LS1.. When I see a dyno graph and a track pass of a cam you designed I might start looking at your grinds. Not saying you don't have knowledge, but your cams aren't proved at all yet. TR's are proven and solid as many other sponsors on this board. Lets see some dyno sheets.. Let's see some track results..
Have any of the cars you designed a cam for dynoed with a true AF reading? The one I have seen (220/220 cam) was anywhere from15.0-13.8 and he didn't even post a graph on Norcal-LS1.. When I see a dyno graph and a track pass of a cam you designed I might start looking at your grinds. Not saying you don't have knowledge, but your cams aren't proved at all yet. TR's are proven and solid as many other sponsors on this board. Lets see some dyno sheets.. Let's see some track results..
The real impressive thing about this combo is how well it idles & low-speed drivability (below 2K rpm). It acts like the stock cam with just a little lope....yet performs like the bigboys.
I have plenty of proven Ford cams....yes, Ford. Some of you may think that what works for Ford doesn't neccesarily work for the LS1....well true & false.
Both Fuel injected mustangs & LS1's are intake restricted. & I'm not just talking about cross-section. Runner length plays a HUGE factor.
An LS1 cam guru came on the Corral (Big Ford site) & started preaching the reverse-split cams & how well they work. Theories at the time....then backed up by solid dyno & track times. These revese-split fords are local...& our little 120K+ mile stock shortblock 302's are giving the local LS1 boys a beating. Even hot-cam LS1's with all the bolt-ons can't keep up. The reverse-split cams have been proven on both LS1's & 302's.....I'm simply taking it one step further with bad-*** VE's.
That *little* 220/220 cam I did was the smallest I would do.
Damn thing will pass smog.... Some real impressive combo's are on the horizon. I will prove my theories at the track....like I've always done. It's just a little hard to get LS1's to follow a Ford guy. LOL
09-10-2003, 12:01 AM
#40
Re: Help me cook up a custom grind cam 93,
I'm glad your not taking my post as a slam to you.. Do me a favor and TTT the thread on Norcal that has the dyno graph since I can't find it.. I'm waiting to see another dyno with the A/F fixed and then track times. I'm hoping to have my TR224 in with in the next month. We'll see how it does..
I'm glad your not taking my post as a slam to you.. Do me a favor and TTT the thread on Norcal that has the dyno graph since I can't find it.. I'm waiting to see another dyno with the A/F fixed and then track times. I'm hoping to have my TR224 in with in the next month. We'll see how it does..