LS2 427 with bad rings...
10-26-2008, 08:48 AM
#21
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If they built the engine, and THEY installed 30 lb injectors....then they simply should have given you a tune to match the engine they built. If they didn't, they screwed the pooch.
BUT....when the car SAT for awhile, did the engine sit having never been started up? Then you got the PCM from MTI with their tune and then you started it for the first time and drove it around with that tune?
If so, they are 100% at fault. They built it and they tuned it wrong. No way out of it for them unless there's other things we don't know. All engine builders love to say, "if we build it and we tune it, yeah, then we'll warranty it."
If MTI built it and Joe Blow tuner did the PCM tuning....then you'd be screwed with no recourse.
BUT....when the car SAT for awhile, did the engine sit having never been started up? Then you got the PCM from MTI with their tune and then you started it for the first time and drove it around with that tune?
If so, they are 100% at fault. They built it and they tuned it wrong. No way out of it for them unless there's other things we don't know. All engine builders love to say, "if we build it and we tune it, yeah, then we'll warranty it."
If MTI built it and Joe Blow tuner did the PCM tuning....then you'd be screwed with no recourse.
10-26-2008, 11:23 AM
#23
FormerVendor
Yeah that was what I thought as there are some issues with those rings at times on a normal wetsump street car if everythings not perfect. I do not use them on regular wetsump engines although they are awsome rings but it seems on the high windage LSx deals with stock wetsumps sometimes they do eat a lot of oil.
10-26-2008, 02:13 PM
#24
The car sat for the cold winter months as I live in Ohio. and no i didnt start it. Everyother weekend in summer and fall I would be able to get home and drive it. I broke it in just how they advised me too. Used the oil as they said. Didn't know at the time they had programmed the PCM for the wrong injectors. The car has always ran great just always seem to overload in higher Rpms. And yes i think MTI is a little at fault here but has since went out of business. So it is up to me to get it fixed.
MTI is at fault.
Shouldn't cost more than $1,500 to have it rebuilt, honing, gaskets, rings, new bearings and all. I'm getting my stroker completely rebuilt, including having it further bored out to 4.125, so it'll be a 441ci. That plus rebuild, plus new pistons is gonna cost me about $2,200. Just gotta remove my engine and bring it over to the shop.
10-26-2008, 06:21 PM
#25
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Ok. So knowing everything I've found out in this thread, whats my next step to make sure the rings are bad? compression test? leak down test? and also what numbers should i see with either of these tests. Once I confirm that they are bad(which I think we all agree) what rings are best for me? Last any sponsers out there please give me some info on what I'm looking at here for a rebuild. Heard alot of good things about HKE just don't know if i really want to spend the $$ to ship my motor all the was to Tx and back. But if its worth it then again maybe i will 
10-26-2008, 07:08 PM
#26
FormerVendor
LS6427, you are right that if you have crazy fuel wash going through the engine that could wreak havok as well. I wouldn't think MTI would have let it go like that but I was not there or around for any of that so I don't know. They always seemed a cut above in general and very responsible overall. I just know that many people had some bad luck with those rings on the LSx stuff even though like I said we use them on race stuff with great success.
10-29-2008, 11:51 PM
#28
FormerVendor
I'd personally use the regular Total Seal rings with the normal top ring. They work great and I'd probably run a napier second as well but they probably did as MTI always used pretty much the best on everything. Again I just think that top ring on that set isn't the one to use on a wet sump LS1. I'd use the regular Total Seal ring instead and it would probably be fine. This is still assuming there is no other issue.
10-30-2008, 12:15 AM
#29
LS6427, you are right that if you have crazy fuel wash going through the engine that could wreak havok as well. I wouldn't think MTI would have let it go like that but I was not there or around for any of that so I don't know. They always seemed a cut above in general and very responsible overall. I just know that many people had some bad luck with those rings on the LSx stuff even though like I said we use them on race stuff with great success.
But the OP said that MTI sent him an incorrectly tuned PCM for the engine that they built, and MTI made a mistake thinking different fuel injectors were in there.
10-30-2008, 12:18 AM
#30
Ok. So knowing everything I've found out in this thread, whats my next step to make sure the rings are bad? compression test? leak down test? and also what numbers should i see with either of these tests. Once I confirm that they are bad(which I think we all agree) what rings are best for me? Last any sponsers out there please give me some info on what I'm looking at here for a rebuild. Heard alot of good things about HKE just don't know if i really want to spend the $$ to ship my motor all the was to Tx and back. But if its worth it then again maybe i will
Where do you live?
10-31-2008, 07:39 PM
#31
Built motors Man this is the exact thing that scares the hell out of me....GM can throw these motors
together and run for 200,000 miles but i've seen too may post about guys having problems
with built motors...i know it's a once in awhile occurance but still damn, for the money it takes for a built motor it's these kinds of issues that would keep me up at night and i'd be popping valium like candy until i know my motor was built right and broken in by the engine builder. Dude i wish ya all the luck in the world that everything works itself out...Take care buddy.
Den
together and run for 200,000 miles but i've seen too may post about guys having problems
with built motors...i know it's a once in awhile occurance but still damn, for the money it takes for a built motor it's these kinds of issues that would keep me up at night and i'd be popping valium like candy until i know my motor was built right and broken in by the engine builder. Dude i wish ya all the luck in the world that everything works itself out...Take care buddy.
Den
10-31-2008, 08:41 PM
#33
Man this is the exact thing that scares the hell out of me....GM can throw these motors
together and run for 200,000 miles but i've seen too may post about guys having problems
with built motors...i know it's a once in awhile occurance but still damn, for the money it takes for a built motor it's these kinds of issues that would keep me up at night and i'd be popping valium like candy until i know my motor was built right and broken in by the engine builder. Dude i wish ya all the luck in the world that everything works itself out...Take care buddy.
Den
together and run for 200,000 miles but i've seen too may post about guys having problems
with built motors...i know it's a once in awhile occurance but still damn, for the money it takes for a built motor it's these kinds of issues that would keep me up at night and i'd be popping valium like candy until i know my motor was built right and broken in by the engine builder. Dude i wish ya all the luck in the world that everything works itself out...Take care buddy.
Den
The best engine builder in the world will have a pile of crap for an engine 1 week after a bad tune. Hell, engine could detonate and actually come apart from a bad tune.
10-31-2008, 08:44 PM
#34
Just about any mechanic can do a leakdown check. Just make sure they pull the fuel pump fuses, I think things can get damaged beyond repair if they don't and it starts up while doing the test. Can;'t remember exactly what the deal was though.
It'll take a matter of 15 minutes to do it after you have the spark plugs out. You only need to check 2 plugs on each side, don't mess with that #8 plug on the passengers side.
It'll take a matter of 15 minutes to do it after you have the spark plugs out. You only need to check 2 plugs on each side, don't mess with that #8 plug on the passengers side.
10-31-2008, 09:08 PM
#35
Man this is the exact thing that scares the hell out of me....GM can throw these motors
together and run for 200,000 miles but i've seen too may post about guys having problems
with built motors...i know it's a once in awhile occurance but still damn, for the money it takes for a built motor it's these kinds of issues that would keep me up at night and i'd be popping valium like candy until i know my motor was built right and broken in by the engine builder. Dude i wish ya all the luck in the world that everything works itself out...Take care buddy.
Den
together and run for 200,000 miles but i've seen too may post about guys having problems
with built motors...i know it's a once in awhile occurance but still damn, for the money it takes for a built motor it's these kinds of issues that would keep me up at night and i'd be popping valium like candy until i know my motor was built right and broken in by the engine builder. Dude i wish ya all the luck in the world that everything works itself out...Take care buddy.
Den
Get the engine in a box to Tx addressed to Erik, wait patiently recieve box back and dont worry bout it again
11-01-2008, 09:58 AM
#36
times can qualify as an LS1 expert..lol. But seriously i'm sure HKE, Katech, Speed, Inc, EPP, and 2 others that i like on here, i'm sure they can build a motor that puts down great numbers without having to over head or over cam the thing to show good numbers right?
And i agree with the previous post that tuning is just as important when running a new engine. Damn where's my bottle of xanny's, post like this makes my hands shake
Den
11-01-2008, 10:18 AM
#37
Bring it on over and we'll do a leak down test and if it checks out then we'll give it a good tune. If you don't see blue smoke behind you and you mentioned that it still feels like it is making good power, then I'd tune it and then monitor oil usage since you can't get the engine covered under a warranty. Bob
11-01-2008, 07:21 PM
#38
Man it stinks that us S.Jersey guys dont have a shop near by like EPP.
I'd be happy to just drop off my car, D1SC kit, and the rest of the parts and just stop
back when the car's finished. Especially when it comes to having the FMIC installed and the tuning done by Bob and his guys
I'd be happy to just drop off my car, D1SC kit, and the rest of the parts and just stop
back when the car's finished. Especially when it comes to having the FMIC installed and the tuning done by Bob and his guys
11-02-2008, 04:58 AM
#39
Man it stinks that us S.Jersey guys dont have a shop near by like EPP.
I'd be happy to just drop off my car, D1SC kit, and the rest of the parts and just stop
back when the car's finished. Especially when it comes to having the FMIC installed and the tuning done by Bob and his guys
I'd be happy to just drop off my car, D1SC kit, and the rest of the parts and just stop
back when the car's finished. Especially when it comes to having the FMIC installed and the tuning done by Bob and his guys
11-05-2008, 11:16 AM
#40
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Update Spent yesterday at EPP(ExoticPerformancePlus). Took the WS6 there and had them do a leak down test. All the numbers came back great, rings are fine. they put new plugs in and gave me a little tuning. Car runs great and has better maners than it did before. A big THANKS to the guys at EPP for all that they did. Great guys over at EPP. Level headed and willing to help and get you what you want. I will be returning for any other work I need done.