Installing ARP Rod Bolts LS2
Just to add another anecdote, I've done mine and my wife's 6.0 with arp bolts and both are fine after many miles and 7k shifts. I'm building an LS3 right now and I'm using arp bolts again. Not going to resize this time either.
No need to re-size after the arp bolts on an ls. Traditional sbc bolts used a press fit which made it necessary to re-size after swapping them out due to the fact that the bolt located the cap. Not so with the cracked cap rod which uses the crack to locate the cap. Believe what you want but I've had zero issues with my swap and I know of more people than I can count that have swapped them out without problems.
What exactly would I ask of my builder to find out if they do the required procedures in a rebuild. I'm rebuilding my LS2 due to worn bearings and part of the job will include the crank inspection and then replacement with the correct bearing and arp bolts.
I simply assumed they would check to account for everything, but I've read enough stories of new engines blowing up to know that not everybody takes care of the build like it should be.
Is this a machine shop responsibility or the builder's job?
I simply assumed they would check to account for everything, but I've read enough stories of new engines blowing up to know that not everybody takes care of the build like it should be.
Is this a machine shop responsibility or the builder's job?
Just ask the guys before hand if they can resize a cracked cap rod. I'd be concerned if they say no. It's unfortunate that so many "respectable" people think resizing a cracked cap rod is so difficult.
No need to re-size after the arp bolts on an ls. Traditional sbc bolts used a press fit which made it necessary to re-size after swapping them out due to the fact that the bolt located the cap. Not so with the cracked cap rod which uses the crack to locate the cap. Believe what you want but I've had zero issues with my swap and I know of more people than I can count that have swapped them out without problems.
Those who have gotten lucky by not resizing their rods are just that, they're lucky. Either that or their tame engines just don't make enough power to cause any issues anyways. Who knows. Personally, I wouldn't take that chance.
Launching!
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 268
Likes: 1
Any time rod bolts are changed the big end must be resized. There is two reasons. 1 you can adjust your clearances. And 2 the big end will not be on the money if you dont. If you have snap cap rods its not as critical bit must be checked. Snap caps cant be trimmed for obvious reasons. There ore some bearings that allow a big end rebore and work nicely. Final point snap cap rods can use new bolts without reconditioning aut conventional rods cant. All the bolt companies will tell you that.
I will not be resizing mine...talked to a couple of guys that have installed the bolts themselves with 10,000+ miles and rev to 6800 with no problems...And I'll be using the
3x torque method also...
3x torque method also...
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,979
Likes: 3
From: Upstate NY
Haha.
Jon,
Resizing a cracked cap rod is easier than traditional rods, you don't have to take anything off of the cap mating surface at all. You just hone the big end out ~.002" larger, and use the appropriate bearing. Clevite has a bearing (CH-1776P) for the LSx engines, as well as a bearing for Ford mod motors with cracked cap rods. However, the bearing (at least Clevite's) is made for when the engine is rebuilt, so they are meant for a crank turned .010" under, or more.
Jon,
Resizing a cracked cap rod is easier than traditional rods, you don't have to take anything off of the cap mating surface at all. You just hone the big end out ~.002" larger, and use the appropriate bearing. Clevite has a bearing (CH-1776P) for the LSx engines, as well as a bearing for Ford mod motors with cracked cap rods. However, the bearing (at least Clevite's) is made for when the engine is rebuilt, so they are meant for a crank turned .010" under, or more.
Yeah, but most people have to pull the piston and rod out to hone the crankpin bore. Besides, reusing the 80,000 mile bearings which just got the high spots rubbed off will give too much clearance.
Jon
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,691
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From: Sunny London, UK
http://store.katechengines.com/share...CS=katech&All=
"These direct replacement bolts are made from H-11 material for extremely high tensile strength with threads rolled to J-graded specifications. To install the new bolts, simply remove the old bolts and feral that hold them in the rod cap. Then insert the new rod bolts, apply a light coating of supplied lubricant to the threads and torque to 50ft.lbs. Using the Katech rod bolts will increase your engines RPM and Horsepower potential.
• H-11 high tensile material - 200,000 psi yield strength
• Bolts directly in place, no resizing necessary"
"These direct replacement bolts are made from H-11 material for extremely high tensile strength with threads rolled to J-graded specifications. To install the new bolts, simply remove the old bolts and feral that hold them in the rod cap. Then insert the new rod bolts, apply a light coating of supplied lubricant to the threads and torque to 50ft.lbs. Using the Katech rod bolts will increase your engines RPM and Horsepower potential.
• H-11 high tensile material - 200,000 psi yield strength
• Bolts directly in place, no resizing necessary"
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http://store.katechengines.com/share...CS=katech&All=
"These direct replacement bolts are made from H-11 material for extremely high tensile strength with threads rolled to J-graded specifications. To install the new bolts, simply remove the old bolts and feral that hold them in the rod cap. Then insert the new rod bolts, apply a light coating of supplied lubricant to the threads and torque to 50ft.lbs. Using the Katech rod bolts will increase your engines RPM and Horsepower potential.
• H-11 high tensile material - 200,000 psi yield strength
• Bolts directly in place, no resizing necessary"
"These direct replacement bolts are made from H-11 material for extremely high tensile strength with threads rolled to J-graded specifications. To install the new bolts, simply remove the old bolts and feral that hold them in the rod cap. Then insert the new rod bolts, apply a light coating of supplied lubricant to the threads and torque to 50ft.lbs. Using the Katech rod bolts will increase your engines RPM and Horsepower potential.
• H-11 high tensile material - 200,000 psi yield strength
• Bolts directly in place, no resizing necessary"
The ARP 8740 material has a 200,000 psi tensile strength, and stretches ~.0055" @ 45ft-lbs, but the Katech H-11 capscrew is stronger than the ARP 8740 (and even the ARP 2000) material at 260,000psi tensile strength, stretches even more to .006"-.007" @ the same 45ft-lbs, but doesn't distort the bore enough to require the rod to be resized?
I know there are more variables to this equation, such as lubricant (ARP Molybdnenum v. CMD) and dimensions (Katech looks to have an undercut shank), but I find it hard to believe that a rodbolt "upgrade" won't need to be resized. How can you increase the clamping force on a cap, yet not cause significant bore distortion? Please, anyone more knowledgeable than I on the science of fasteners, shine some light on this!
Everyone keeps quoting what they read about the Katech not requiring a resize but the ARP needing it, so I would like to know what the Katech bolts do differently than the ARP bolts that make one require resizing and the other not require resizing. . .food for thought
EDIT: KCS was faster than I with that proposal. . .
EDIT: KCS was faster than I with that proposal. . .
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800-456-0211 / PM / Facebook
WHIPPLE Superchargers, Procharger, Magnuson, Powerbond Sale, HPTuners packages!, Trickflow, AFR, PRC, CHE Trunion upgrade, $100 7.400" pushrod set, Custom Cam of your choice
Launching!
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 268
Likes: 1
Old style rods that have pressed in bolts need to be resized because the bolt centers the cap. On snap cap rods with bolts you should resize for the extra clamping force on the cap. In the years i have been in this business that always held true. That being said generally speaking snap cap rods are very forgiving on cap shift. They are very stable and really dont deform enough to speak of. But they do deform as a rule but very little. I always check With new high strength bolts. Snap cap rods are not going to suffer to much deforming with new bolts. Toyota uses centering hollow dowels between the caps and they also do very good with bolt changes and high strength bolts. Bottom line the best thing to do is check because it effects bearing clearance and eccentricity. TOM
