To sleeve or not to sleeve....
TECH Regular
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 437
Likes: 2
From: Cleveland
? Their sleeve length is longer than most blocks. Long enough for 4.125+ strokes with their superdeck 1 and a 4.500 stroke with their superdeck 2. I do a lot of pistons with these guys and everything was laid out from the start.
Steve @ RED is the man. He dry sleeved my LS2 block and NO problems what so ever. The machine shop who finished up the block said that RED's machine work was top notch! I'm sure there's other places who do it but I believe Steve worked with Darton on the sleeve development.
I stopped in @ Steve's n checked him out before I sent my block out. His shop was cool...
I stopped in @ Steve's n checked him out before I sent my block out. His shop was cool...
is "RED" a machine shop? is their a website? how do find it?
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,043
Likes: 0
From: Texas and Qatar
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2007
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Last edited by ls 2 goat; Oct 15, 2009 at 11:56 AM.
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good info/quote on sleeves in another thread I'm posting in here :
Like I said, I have Darton Seal Tight dry sleeve blocks out there holding a thousand to the wheels. Build and tune the engine right, make sure you have sufficient cooling capacity and you will be fine on pump gas to that power level. Above that I recommend the MID wet sleeve.
Stock LS7 blocks hold up fine with race gas. You must keep the stock block out of detonation or you will split a wall.
It is a lot easier for me and cheaper for you to sleeve the block before it cracks if you intend to run pump gas with high compression, boost or nitrous.
I sleeve many brands of engine blocks, not just GM LS blocks. The Toyota 2 liter 2ZZ engine used in the Lotus is holding 750 to the wheels with the Darton Seal Tight dry liner. That's 2 liters, not 7.
My MID wet sleeved block 3.2 liter Acura FX Motorsports NSX Time Attack car (Cricket Wireless Sponsored) makes 900 flywheel horsepower from 3.2 liters. They won the last four races and set new track records at each of those races.
Note that these two examples have four bolts around each cylinder. In fact, all the block makes I wet sleeve with Darton MID sleeves have only four bolts around each cylinder. It's all in the building and tuning!
To answer the question on the difference between wet and dry liners. Dry liner does not come in contact with coolant. It fits in the aluminum bore of the block and depends on that aluminum bore to keep it round. A wet liner does away with the aluminum wall and is in direct contact with the coolant. Wet liners have a much thicker cylinder wall than a dry liner and do not depend on the block for support to keep them round regarding piston side thrust or cylinder pressure. Examples, the Darton wet liners used in diesel tractor pull hold over 125 lbs of boost. Nissan 3.5 liter MID sleeved V6 2,200 hp on methanol with 60+ lbs. of boost. Honda 2 liter MID sleeved four banger 1,450 hp on methanol with 45 lbs. of boost. Ford 5.4 liter MID sleeved GT40 2,200 hp (not sure on the boost on these).
Steve
Stock LS7 blocks hold up fine with race gas. You must keep the stock block out of detonation or you will split a wall.
It is a lot easier for me and cheaper for you to sleeve the block before it cracks if you intend to run pump gas with high compression, boost or nitrous.
I sleeve many brands of engine blocks, not just GM LS blocks. The Toyota 2 liter 2ZZ engine used in the Lotus is holding 750 to the wheels with the Darton Seal Tight dry liner. That's 2 liters, not 7.
My MID wet sleeved block 3.2 liter Acura FX Motorsports NSX Time Attack car (Cricket Wireless Sponsored) makes 900 flywheel horsepower from 3.2 liters. They won the last four races and set new track records at each of those races.
Note that these two examples have four bolts around each cylinder. In fact, all the block makes I wet sleeve with Darton MID sleeves have only four bolts around each cylinder. It's all in the building and tuning!
To answer the question on the difference between wet and dry liners. Dry liner does not come in contact with coolant. It fits in the aluminum bore of the block and depends on that aluminum bore to keep it round. A wet liner does away with the aluminum wall and is in direct contact with the coolant. Wet liners have a much thicker cylinder wall than a dry liner and do not depend on the block for support to keep them round regarding piston side thrust or cylinder pressure. Examples, the Darton wet liners used in diesel tractor pull hold over 125 lbs of boost. Nissan 3.5 liter MID sleeved V6 2,200 hp on methanol with 60+ lbs. of boost. Honda 2 liter MID sleeved four banger 1,450 hp on methanol with 45 lbs. of boost. Ford 5.4 liter MID sleeved GT40 2,200 hp (not sure on the boost on these).
Steve
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2007
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I'm not doubting the abilities of a sleeved motor. I'd love to be running one myself but the shop that did mine decided it be fun to go at it with a chainsaw....
JUST FOR CLARIFICATION THAT LAST PICTURE IS SHADED TO SHOW HOW MUCH THE PISTON WAS HANGING OUT OF THE CYLINDER
[/QUOTE]
JUST FOR CLARIFICATION THAT LAST PICTURE IS SHADED TO SHOW HOW MUCH THE PISTON WAS HANGING OUT OF THE CYLINDER
[/QUOTE] Last edited by ls 2 goat; Oct 17, 2009 at 07:25 PM.
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 197
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Yes that is for clearance. Problem is the block was already clearanced. They decided to clearance it again after being told not too. Take a look at how far the pistons hang out. Also the shop tried to charge me 1200 for said hack job clearancing.
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 197
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Thats a thread all in itself. Still working on that one. Yes, they refunded my money and sent me a core but this was only after weeks of long phone conversations and finally threats of legal action (they had the block 2.5 months). It was good times to say the least. Sad thing is, I had heard nothing but good things about them. Then they tried to pull this ****.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 346
Likes: 0
From: Raleigh, NC
That sucks.... Katech and RED are excellent if you are still looking for some engine work. Many friends have gone to both and had nothing but good things to say - and their cars are still running strong.
FormerVendor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,065
Likes: 6
From: Houston, Tx.
Thats a thread all in itself. Still working on that one. Yes, they refunded my money and sent me a core but this was only after weeks of long phone conversations and finally threats of legal action (they had the block 2.5 months). It was good times to say the least. Sad thing is, I had heard nothing but good things about them. Then they tried to pull this ****.
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 197
Likes: 0
YES! ERL clearanced my block like that. My shop did nothing to the block but hone it and throw the pistons in to check clearances (it came from them rough bored). ERL sent the block to us like this and then gave us the big F you when it was brought to their attention. If you'd like I can send you the emails they sent me on it.