Let me start by saying, I go back and forth between setup ideas too much

Alright, so basically I was recently set on doing an all-Mamo AFR setup over this coming winter, called him a few weeks, didnt talk specifics but I'd like to shoot for 480+rwhp. Potred/milled 205's, flycut pistons, and ported FAST 102 all done by Mamo. Rough estimate $6,000-7000.

For that money, it popped into my head that I could go for a new mild shortblock build. TSP sells a 370 for ~$3,000 which peaked my interest, and a 364 LS2 for 500ish more. I figured i could get the numbers pretty close with an L92 setup for not too much more.

My car has 96,xxx on it now, motor is stock with no issues, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to refresh it either way; either a 0 mile new motor, or a completely refreshed valvetrain and rod bolts to go with the H/C/I if I stayed with the 346.

Also, I figure I could sell of the LS1 I have now to offset some of the cost in the case of the 370/364.


Stuck as too which route would be best. Really just looking for a hard running street car, might see the track once a month. I was going to piece together the AFR setup over summer and fall, and was about to buy the FAST tomorrow on payday to start, but I figured I should think things out and ask the experts.

Your input is welcome and appreciated. Thanks.


extra question: does any sponsor sell L76 intakes, or must you go with a FAST for L92 heads?

 

As much as I like AFR products (expecially BBC) going to a 4 inch bore and L92 heads would sure appear to be a better power combination. I would spend a few more $ and get a ported set of L92's as well.

The TSP short blocks you note also include forged pistons and rods - a way stronger combo than your tired and reringed 346.

 

thanks exactly what i was thinking (forged BE). ported L92s are a must. i really like the idea that i can step up to a 402/408 if i went with the bigger bore blocks as well.

 

An optimized cathedral set-up will hit alot harder under 4K and the part throttle response on the street is night and day. The engine will feel 30 CID larger with the optimized cathedral heads we discussed.

You have to experience both to know what Im talking about but this is just the way it is. The L92 stuff makes decent or even better than decent top end power if the set-up is right but its not nearly as efficient and produces a very different feel in the car.

Ultimately we drive our cars, not the dyno graghs, and the buttmeter will be smiling more with an optimized cathedral set-up although like most things in life the extra privilege costs money.

I think this is an important situation to consider if you plan on putting alot of road miles on the combo....PM a few of the guys I have helped with a similar project and you will see the best thing about the combo was the immediate response and grunt at part throttle. You get to experience that 90% of the time versus the 10% of the time your at WOT (not to mention a properly set up optimized cathedral combination still lays down a big number).

I stumbled on this thread by accident but felt this input was worth the few minutes it took me to respond.

Good luck deciding what to do.....this hobby is filled with crossroads and decisions to make and its usually always a "cost versus benefit" situation to grapple and ponder over.

Regards,
Tony

 

awesome post and so true

 

....which is why I called him. He's the best in the biz.

Thanks Tony, I just wanted a general consensus to make me stand behind me previous choice. Really, the big draw of the 370 wasnt the cubes, more the lack of miles on the bottom end. Either way, I'm spending big bucks because I will not do this twice, nor will I cop out with a set of LS6 heads and a FAST ported by joe blow with a monster cam.

Just out of curiosity, what would a set of AFRs do on an LS2/370? I think I read you have a bigger cc coming out very soon, correct?

 

I'd go with a 364cid/G6X3/TFS 225s/ported FAST 102

 

1- im not the biggest fan of off the shelf cams. not saying they dont work, but for the most part, its not my thing.

2- ive heard some bad things about TFS customer support. might have to look more into that.

3-i want to keep as few people involved with the build as possible. seeing as Tony is THE man to go to for FAST porting, as well as being the same person to touch up the heads, means the combo will work alot better than just throwing A B and C together and hoping for a #/time.

 

Bigger cubes and an optimized heads cam package of course ups the thrill factor even more.....you will have even more area under the curve and part throttle torque available than a similar package in say a 346. Peak power is very similar....just higher torque peak and more torque available at lower RPM's.

Once again though.....where do you draw the line in the sand concerning costs?

I have helped numerous guys now with strokers and a complete "Mamofied" top half....built a handful of complete dyno tested packages personally and have another in the works right now as a matter of fact (a 416 with a set of 225 heads I'm tweaking on). That type of package provides thrilling results and the SOTP "feel" is off the chart (the last 407 I built featuring our new 215 head breaks the wheels loose in 3rd gear at 3500 RPM's)....BUT, its big money to spend on a well prepped stroker and the killer top end.

Unfortunately like any serious hobby (pick one....it doesn't matter) its always about the greenbacks. As I am also a junkie myself permanently bitten by the horsepower and acceleration bug, the best advice I could really dispense is to try your hardest not to take the short cuts.....better to wait six months and build the motor you really want than perhaps the one you can afford now or next month. Inevitably, if you don't I promise there is a 75% plus chance you will do it anyway ultimately costing you a bundle more than had you waited to do it right the first time. I speak to those people every day of every week practically and we all have been there once or many times before.

Set a realistic power goal with a realistic budget after doing all the research you can to figure out what would hopefully best meet you needs.....then take the time to slowly achieve it. In the end it will be far more rewarding and it wont leave you with the nagging feeling of wishing you would have done it differently during all the time you own it....especially if you fall short of your power goals which adds insult to injury.

My car has been down almost TWO YEARS waiting for our 245 LS head to be complete....I could have ran something else in the meantime but I decided to wait (longer than I originally thought) to have exactly what I have wanted. To build it with something else to hold me over just felt like a waste of time.

While Im on that topic AFR officially released the new small chamber 245 head (65 cc) for production today (meaning we can now officially take your order), but I don't want to hijack this thread to discuss it. In short, its the best 15' cathedral head by far I have ever seen or tested....I will probably start a thread about its release sometime next week.

Have a good weekend guys....

-Tony

 

i appreciate all your input and i will definitely take it to heart. but really, i could care less if you steal this thread for such a badass thread. if you need a teaser thread until you post yours up, feel free to dump some info . i would definitely rather go with a big cube motor, so i might jsut hold off on everything now and go big. i do not want to do it twice, or have any regrets, so maybe some extra time would be worth the wait if this 245 head is that killer