Warhawk shortblock
Warhawk shortblock Hi Guys.
Newbie here. Is anyone in here running a warhawk 427 shortblock? I ask because I have one to drop into my Caddy XLR (2006). I also have a 2008 LS7 long block with 19K. Here is my question. The Warhawk is set up for 15 degree heads. I have an extra set of forged 12 degree pistons to use the LS7 heads. Do I swap pistons and put the 8452 heads on the warhawk or use a LS3/L92 head? Am I better off using the LS7 longblock I have?
I an going to keep an auto trans in the caddy. I am really only looking for around 600 N/A HP. Any advice from the rank and file? Thanks in advance.
Cliff
Newbie here. Is anyone in here running a warhawk 427 shortblock? I ask because I have one to drop into my Caddy XLR (2006). I also have a 2008 LS7 long block with 19K. Here is my question. The Warhawk is set up for 15 degree heads. I have an extra set of forged 12 degree pistons to use the LS7 heads. Do I swap pistons and put the 8452 heads on the warhawk or use a LS3/L92 head? Am I better off using the LS7 longblock I have?
I an going to keep an auto trans in the caddy. I am really only looking for around 600 N/A HP. Any advice from the rank and file? Thanks in advance.
Cliff
Who built the engine? I wont use World's heads but have had good luck with the blocks. I'd run a Warhawk block over a cracked sleeve-prone GM LS7 block any day of the week.
Now if the GM block gets re-sleeved by RED, now thats a different story.
There are great choices for 15 degree heads that will perform well on the 427, you needent swap pistons unless youre dead set on using LS7 heads. Youre probably better off using cathedral port 15 degree heads for the auto trans Caddy anyway.
Now if the GM block gets re-sleeved by RED, now thats a different story.
There are great choices for 15 degree heads that will perform well on the 427, you needent swap pistons unless youre dead set on using LS7 heads. Youre probably better off using cathedral port 15 degree heads for the auto trans Caddy anyway.
Last edited by Whistler; Jun 9, 2011 at 11:17 PM.
Thanks for the input. I've heard the same things about the heads. I've been through the shortblock, and it will handle anything you can toss at it power wise. The trade off is the mass of the rotating assembly.
I'm not set on anything in terms of heads. I happen to have 3 LS7 (cast 8452) heads in perfect condition. Any suggestions on heads is welcome. I am curious as to the most prevalent 15 degree heads for making power on a street car. I want to keep the cam reasonable and the car drivable and fun.
I'm not set on anything in terms of heads. I happen to have 3 LS7 (cast 8452) heads in perfect condition. Any suggestions on heads is welcome. I am curious as to the most prevalent 15 degree heads for making power on a street car. I want to keep the cam reasonable and the car drivable and fun.
WKMN,
These kinds of posts make me crazy. Wouldn't it be better to relay a specific story to illustrate your point? The reason I asked the question is to learn what I want to avoid from other members' experience.
These kinds of posts make me crazy. Wouldn't it be better to relay a specific story to illustrate your point? The reason I asked the question is to learn what I want to avoid from other members' experience.
I have a Warhawk 427 in my T/A. It lasted 1000 mi. the first time it was built from the rockers spewing their bearings. Trashed an intake valve and $700 lifters. LS7 issue that seemed to be happening alot at the time. I would do the trunion upgrade if using stock rockers.
Anyway, after removing the heads (LS7 heads), I noticed the sleeves had dropped. I had read a few instances of this happening as the sleeves weren't seated in assembly. Mine were down .005 or so. Didn't cause a head gasket issue but that was only 1000 mi. Called World and they said to ship it back on my dime. It was $120 to get the block decked vs. about $300 to ship it back to them. Plus, after the customer service I received from them on the phone F THEM! I have seen and heard so many bad stories of their workmanship, I was happier that I assembled the motor myself.
Mine put 550 rwhp with stock heads and intake (LS7). Is the block all it can be? Who knows? Maybe turbo'd or spray we might see. I do like the priority main oiling which I hope helps at the road course but, for the money I would get a sleeved block if I did it again.
Anyway, after removing the heads (LS7 heads), I noticed the sleeves had dropped. I had read a few instances of this happening as the sleeves weren't seated in assembly. Mine were down .005 or so. Didn't cause a head gasket issue but that was only 1000 mi. Called World and they said to ship it back on my dime. It was $120 to get the block decked vs. about $300 to ship it back to them. Plus, after the customer service I received from them on the phone F THEM! I have seen and heard so many bad stories of their workmanship, I was happier that I assembled the motor myself.
Mine put 550 rwhp with stock heads and intake (LS7). Is the block all it can be? Who knows? Maybe turbo'd or spray we might see. I do like the priority main oiling which I hope helps at the road course but, for the money I would get a sleeved block if I did it again.
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Thanks Bigblock. I have a stock LS7 shortblock and the Warhawk shortblock. Sounds like I'll tear the Warhakw down and blueprint just for insurance if I use it. If it were your choice, which way would you go. Thanks again.
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Wow.... sounds like he had trouble with the RHS motor as well. That is not a pretty story. I went through similar issues with my BMW build. That's is the stuff that makes you wonder about modding engines!
If it were mine, I'd run 235 TFS heads with a FAST 102 intake/TB.
There are many quality options out there available from this board's sponsors.
The TFS 235s are a great price, and while probably wont give you 600 RWHP through an automatic, will make excellent power while maintaining a monster torque curve.
The reason I asked who built the engine is because if someone unfamiliar with Warhawk engines built it, there is a specific order to the machining process that can cause sleeves to drop a few thousandths and potentially cause a problem if not followed.
If the block needed to be decked to achieve the desired deck height, a torque plate and head gasket need to be torqued to the block first before deck milling can take place. If this step is skipped, any disruption of the pressed in sleeves that may have occured from the boring/honing process will be cut flush with the deck. Then after the head is torqued back on the sleeve will be pressed back into place causing the top to sink below the deck.
WKMCD, I have followed RichZ's build from the beginning as well. What a torturous experience that has been for him. My heart goes out to that guy!
While one of the heads that he got from World did have a crack in the exhaust port, One cant help but discount the other problems that were had as the build was in the hands of one of the most morally bankrupt hacks to even touch a car, and problems (procrastination delays) were encountered at nearly every step of the build. If one were to draw any inspiration for a build from Rich's troubles,it wouldnt be "dont use XXX engine parts" or dont use "XXX turbo parts"... it would be to never even think of modifying an automobile
There are many quality options out there available from this board's sponsors.
The TFS 235s are a great price, and while probably wont give you 600 RWHP through an automatic, will make excellent power while maintaining a monster torque curve.
The reason I asked who built the engine is because if someone unfamiliar with Warhawk engines built it, there is a specific order to the machining process that can cause sleeves to drop a few thousandths and potentially cause a problem if not followed.
If the block needed to be decked to achieve the desired deck height, a torque plate and head gasket need to be torqued to the block first before deck milling can take place. If this step is skipped, any disruption of the pressed in sleeves that may have occured from the boring/honing process will be cut flush with the deck. Then after the head is torqued back on the sleeve will be pressed back into place causing the top to sink below the deck.
WKMCD, I have followed RichZ's build from the beginning as well. What a torturous experience that has been for him. My heart goes out to that guy!
While one of the heads that he got from World did have a crack in the exhaust port, One cant help but discount the other problems that were had as the build was in the hands of one of the most morally bankrupt hacks to even touch a car, and problems (procrastination delays) were encountered at nearly every step of the build. If one were to draw any inspiration for a build from Rich's troubles,it wouldnt be "dont use XXX engine parts" or dont use "XXX turbo parts"... it would be to never even think of modifying an automobile
Thanks guys. This was the discussion I was looking for. Any idea what the cost of resleeving a Gm LS7 block will run? Are you guys going all forged internals or are you staying with the titanium rods? I will do a little more research, but unless there is an incredible deal on a resleeved block I'll complete the warhawk build.
Fafnir,
I am interested in hearing more about your piston slap issue. I had a similar problem on my BMW stroker and ended up collapsing a piston skirt. To what do you attribute the piston slap? What is your piston to cylinder wall clearance set at?
I am interested in hearing more about your piston slap issue. I had a similar problem on my BMW stroker and ended up collapsing a piston skirt. To what do you attribute the piston slap? What is your piston to cylinder wall clearance set at?
I was under the impression your Warhawk was already built. Youre going to take it apart to change the pistons?
If youre going to run the Ti GM rods, send them to Katech to have the small end bushed for .927 piston pins, and their rod bolts installed. Theyre great for your application once those modifications are made. I would also suggest Mahle 4032 forged pistons for a nice balance between strength and quiet operation for your NA Cadillac.
Fafnir- nice engine!!
If youre going to run the Ti GM rods, send them to Katech to have the small end bushed for .927 piston pins, and their rod bolts installed. Theyre great for your application once those modifications are made. I would also suggest Mahle 4032 forged pistons for a nice balance between strength and quiet operation for your NA Cadillac.
Fafnir- nice engine!!
Last edited by Whistler; Jun 11, 2011 at 12:07 AM.
Whistler, the bottom end has been assembled, but now I'm wondering and I only want to assemble this once. I have Manley pistons. I've thought about selling those and going to a thermal coated JE. My personal preference has always been Ross. Do you like the Mahle pistons for the mass or is the shirt configuration different.
Fafnir,
Nice engine! I had almost identical issues with sidewall clearance and coatings when building the engine for my BMW.
Why did you make the choice on heads over an LS7 top end? Can I ask where you ended up on power? Is it realist to get 600WHP with and auto tranny and not cam the daylights out of the engine?
Nice engine! I had almost identical issues with sidewall clearance and coatings when building the engine for my BMW.
Why did you make the choice on heads over an LS7 top end? Can I ask where you ended up on power? Is it realist to get 600WHP with and auto tranny and not cam the daylights out of the engine?
Fafnir,
I can't thank you enough. If there is ever anything I can do to help you, just say so. I need to determine the cost of resleeving before I decide which way to go. I am definitely in your camp when it comes to cam. I've over-built my fair share of engines. then they are no fun to drive.
What is the consensus in here as to the best CNC programs for the LS7 (cast 8452) heads fo what I want?
I can't thank you enough. If there is ever anything I can do to help you, just say so. I need to determine the cost of resleeving before I decide which way to go. I am definitely in your camp when it comes to cam. I've over-built my fair share of engines. then they are no fun to drive.
What is the consensus in here as to the best CNC programs for the LS7 (cast 8452) heads fo what I want?