ls3 bottum end....to forge or not
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2011
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From: Wilmington, DE
ls3 bottum end....to forge or not im thinking about buying an ls3 crate motor in the future....but also plan on throwin a big cam in with a fast, good heads, full exhaust, and some induction work....so imlooking at probly 610-675 hp flywheel.......if the motor is Brand new, is it worth putting some wiseco pistons in and change the rod boltS?
Ls3's are at ~425 flywheel from the factory so youre looking to add another ~200 horsepower. Not a bad idea to put in wiseco pistons, but you'll need to do a fair amount of machine work. I would just buy a short or long block off Texas Speed. Their prices are fair and you can do more with your money than if you bought an Ls3 from GM as well as not having to tear apart a new motor.
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I don't understand why one would buy a crate engine, tear it apart and substitute a bunch of parts including the cam, pistons and heads. The LS3 has powder metal rods, why not upgrade these to forged too? Seems to make more sense to buy what you want from the start from a reputable builder and be done with it.
675 hp is a lot to ask from stock cubic inches. For this power level, a 427, N2O or FI would probably be a better choice.
675 hp is a lot to ask from stock cubic inches. For this power level, a 427, N2O or FI would probably be a better choice.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,699
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From: Wilmington, DE
i kinda just wanted the benefit of the ls3 heads and intake........plus a forged ls3 from tsp ran about 8600 plus shipping 1500 miles....with justthe basic stuff i needed.......ls3 crate goes for 6500 pluys flat 125 shipping.........just seemed more budget friendly
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Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2011
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From: Wilmington, DE
plus id need to use my shitty ls1 top end for a while.....meaningid have to shell out another 2000 for a fast 102/102 combo with injectors and rails.....if i got the ls3 i could get by alright with a stock unported ls3 for awhile......same with the heads.....thus saving me more money........
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Your asking everyone a question than telling us what your gonna do its double ended..... The GM LS3 won't handle the horsepower you wanna make day after day flogging the hell out of it but your saying you wanna put it together then upgrade take apart put back together raw raw raw raw...for the money and hp you wanna make I would buy a tsp forged 408 a ported trickflow head or something like that and throw the bottle to it.. That setup should spank the **** out of a cammed stock bottom ended LS3 plus then you only do it 1 time
Last edited by blky2k2z; Jul 3, 2011 at 10:35 AM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,699
Likes: 168
From: Wilmington, DE
Your asking everyone a question than telling us what your gonna do its double ended..... The GM LS3 won't handle the horsepower you wanna make day after day flogging the hell out of it but your saying you wanna put it together then upgrade take apart put back together raw raw raw raw...for the money and hp you wanna make I would buy a tsp forged 408 a ported trickflow head or something like that and throw the bottle to it.. That setup should spank the **** out of a cammed stock bottom ended LS3 plus then you only do it 1 time
Last edited by Floorman279; Jul 3, 2011 at 11:28 AM. Reason: .....
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,699
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From: Wilmington, DE
long tubes with true duals
Lid and ftra
probly stock ls3 intake, may port eventually
ported ls3 heads
bpretty large cam
igger tb
all that i assume i should be seeign about 610-660 flywheel hp.....is that about right? so i dont think it should be necessary to forge......so thats all im trying to get out of this thread weather i need to forge or not
If you're expecting 200 horsepower out of those mods then you'll be spending over 2 grand on heads alone. That added to the cost of a crate motor comes out to the same price as building your own forged 427. Just saying.
yea this will be my every mod here.......
long tubes with true duals
Lid and ftra
probly stock ls3 intake, may port eventually
ported ls3 heads
bpretty large cam
igger tb
all that i assume i should be seeign about 610-660 flywheel hp.....is that about right? so i dont think it should be necessary to forge......so thats all im trying to get out of this thread weather i need to forge or not
long tubes with true duals
Lid and ftra
probly stock ls3 intake, may port eventually
ported ls3 heads
bpretty large cam
igger tb
all that i assume i should be seeign about 610-660 flywheel hp.....is that about right? so i dont think it should be necessary to forge......so thats all im trying to get out of this thread weather i need to forge or not
On the lid, ftra, maf housing and coupling you need atleast 100mm not to bottle neck it. The stock 90mm TB ported will work just fine. You might gain 0-4hp going to a 102mm. Remember the ls3 has no valve reliefs in the pistons so you cant go to crazy on the cam you will be limited to 230's duration unless you do some fly cuttin'.
mild head cam car with ud pully and stock ls3 intake you can expect around 510- 525 rwhp from my experience.
I also dont recommend home porting ls3 heads they are big enough as it is on the intake and you can do more harm then good. If anything touch up the exhaust side.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,699
Likes: 168
From: Wilmington, DE
On the lid, ftra, maf housing and coupling you need atleast 100mm not to bottle neck it. The stock 90mm TB ported will work just fine. You might gain 0-4hp going to a 102mm. Remember the ls3 has no valve reliefs in the pistons so you cant go to crazy on the cam you will be limited to 230's duration unless you do some fly cuttin'.
mild head cam car with ud pully and stock ls3 intake you can expect around 510- 525 rwhp from my experience.
I also dont recommend home porting ls3 heads they are big enough as it is on the intake and you can do more harm then good. If anything touch up the exhaust side.
mild head cam car with ud pully and stock ls3 intake you can expect around 510- 525 rwhp from my experience.
I also dont recommend home porting ls3 heads they are big enough as it is on the intake and you can do more harm then good. If anything touch up the exhaust side.
lol are you crazy i aint touchin these heads......id be sending them out to get ported....which runs like 1100 or so.....i figured in the end by going with the crate motor, ill either break even in the long run, or save 500-1000. im really just trying to get a new motor in this car asap.....then i can do the other mods as i go......that being said, the cheaper way to go now is by going ls3 crate.
this is the prices im figuring. not including a tune or headers or anything, because id need them for each motor.
GOING THE LS3 CRATE ROUTE:LS3 crate motor plus shipping: 7000
cam-400
Ling conversion box: 200ish
other odds and ends: 400
TOTAL TO HAVE IT IN MY CAR RUNNING: 8000
GOING TSP FORGED 418:
motor with conversion kit and no shipping: $8550
reusing ls1 top end by going with ls6 heads: $0
shipping: 300ish
other odds and ends: $200
TOTAL TO HAVE IT IN MY CAR RUNNING: $9050
Now down the road. price for mods to be done
LS3 CRATE ROUTE:
advanced induction ported heads: $1400ish total
possibly fast 102/102: 1300
injectors: 400
fuel rails: 400
Total LS3 route: $11500
FORGED TSP ROUTE:
Fast 102/102 new: $1300
Injectors- $400
Billet fuel rail kit: $400
Total: $11150
so forged tsp is overall cheaper, unless i missed anything.......plus a lot stronger and will make about 40 more hp over the ls3 crate........so i see that it may be best in the long run now to just go tsp forged.....
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In the long run going with a forged build will be your best bet. You should carefully consider using LS6 heads for a 418. The ported LS3 heads TSP offers will make more power than their LS6 offering. (ask them) Shop e-bay for an LS3 intake - there are usually a few on there for $300 including rails and injectors. You still need the TB but the small difference in cost will be made up in the power available.
As you are on a budget, before taking the engine plunge make sure you have added up the costs for everything else. Headers, exhaust, transmission upgrade, clutch or stall, 9 inch rear, suspension and brakes will add a ton of money to your build but really will be needed for a reliable fast car. Why have a lot of power if you can't use it.
Last suggestion - change your heater hoses when engine is out of the car. Simple thing to do that many forget and regret later.
As you are on a budget, before taking the engine plunge make sure you have added up the costs for everything else. Headers, exhaust, transmission upgrade, clutch or stall, 9 inch rear, suspension and brakes will add a ton of money to your build but really will be needed for a reliable fast car. Why have a lot of power if you can't use it.
Last suggestion - change your heater hoses when engine is out of the car. Simple thing to do that many forget and regret later.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,699
Likes: 168
From: Wilmington, DE
In the long run going with a forged build will be your best bet. You should carefully consider using LS6 heads for a 418. The ported LS3 heads TSP offers will make more power than their LS6 offering. (ask them) Shop e-bay for an LS3 intake - there are usually a few on there for $300 including rails and injectors. You still need the TB but the small difference in cost will be made up in the power available.
As you are on a budget, before taking the engine plunge make sure you have added up the costs for everything else. Headers, exhaust, transmission upgrade, clutch or stall, 9 inch rear, suspension and brakes will add a ton of money to your build but really will be needed for a reliable fast car. Why have a lot of power if you can't use it.
Last suggestion - change your heater hoses when engine is out of the car. Simple thing to do that many forget and regret later.
As you are on a budget, before taking the engine plunge make sure you have added up the costs for everything else. Headers, exhaust, transmission upgrade, clutch or stall, 9 inch rear, suspension and brakes will add a ton of money to your build but really will be needed for a reliable fast car. Why have a lot of power if you can't use it.
Last suggestion - change your heater hoses when engine is out of the car. Simple thing to do that many forget and regret later.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,699
Likes: 168
From: Wilmington, DE