Dead 416
Dead 416 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This was professionally assembled, and they are blaming the failure on the pump. We are questioning this as we've run the same pump and pan set up before spinning more rpms with no failures. What are your thoughts on failure/ ring gapping / cylinder out of rounds, bent crank.
Thanks.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/145314794@N05/
Details NA 416 spun # 1&2 rod bearing @ 8 passes1000 miles
LS3 416 stock sleeves
4.07 bore 4” stroke Wiseco pistons/rings/ Compstar crank +rods
Clearances /Mains .0018 /Rods .002/Piston .0045/endplay .003
Ring Gaps/ Top .022 / 2nd .022 /oil .026 Buildersaid since the 2nd ring is cast, it will wear infaster so he sets them the same!
Professionally Ported LS6 oil pump spring changed ,shifted at 6800 ( Builder is blaming failure on pump)
10/40 oil / min pressure 25 max 80 psi
H3 oil pan and widage tray and pick up ¼ clearance.
Tear down
#1&2 rod bearings spun and started to disintegrate balance of rods minimal wear.
mains except #1 wearing normal, some pitting possible cavitation.
All piston shirts had scoring
# 1 cylinder deep groove all cylinders scuffing.
Crank bent at #2 journal .002 /# 3 journal bent .0015/#4 .0000
Cylinder out of roundness.
#1 .0015 #2 .0008
#3 .0012 #4 .0001
#5 .0008 #6 .0019
#7 .001 #8 .0008
Builder is saying cylinders are out of round due to crank being bent. Crank is bent due to the heat in # 1journal.
This was professionally assembled, and they are blaming the failure on the pump. We are questioning this as we've run the same pump and pan set up before spinning more rpms with no failures. What are your thoughts on failure/ ring gapping / cylinder out of rounds, bent crank.
Thanks.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/145314794@N05/
Details NA 416 spun # 1&2 rod bearing @ 8 passes1000 miles
LS3 416 stock sleeves
4.07 bore 4” stroke Wiseco pistons/rings/ Compstar crank +rods
Clearances /Mains .0018 /Rods .002/Piston .0045/endplay .003
Ring Gaps/ Top .022 / 2nd .022 /oil .026 Buildersaid since the 2nd ring is cast, it will wear infaster so he sets them the same!
Professionally Ported LS6 oil pump spring changed ,shifted at 6800 ( Builder is blaming failure on pump)
10/40 oil / min pressure 25 max 80 psi
H3 oil pan and widage tray and pick up ¼ clearance.
Tear down
#1&2 rod bearings spun and started to disintegrate balance of rods minimal wear.
mains except #1 wearing normal, some pitting possible cavitation.
All piston shirts had scoring
# 1 cylinder deep groove all cylinders scuffing.
Crank bent at #2 journal .002 /# 3 journal bent .0015/#4 .0000
Cylinder out of roundness.
#1 .0015 #2 .0008
#3 .0012 #4 .0001
#5 .0008 #6 .0019
#7 .001 #8 .0008
Builder is saying cylinders are out of round due to crank being bent. Crank is bent due to the heat in # 1journal.
I thought the same but others are saying on a NA build it's fine, especially on an aluminum block. I know GM' run's them tighter.
Crank, It's a callies compstar crank so I guess out of the box.
I think the bearing clearances listed are within reason for an aluminum block LS. I will differ to the expert engine builders on ghe forum for an informed opinion on that for the application.
I know LS requires 7 psi per 1,000 rpm normally to be OK so in theory 25 pounds warmed up at idle is ok. However, my 155,xxx mile stock bottom ls1 h& c TA holds 40+ pounds at hot idle with M1 5w-30. It has a ported Katech LS6 oil pump. On a new engine 25 pounds seems low.
Have you talked to who ported the oil pump?
I know LS requires 7 psi per 1,000 rpm normally to be OK so in theory 25 pounds warmed up at idle is ok. However, my 155,xxx mile stock bottom ls1 h& c TA holds 40+ pounds at hot idle with M1 5w-30. It has a ported Katech LS6 oil pump. On a new engine 25 pounds seems low.
Have you talked to who ported the oil pump?
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[QUOTE=99 Black Bird T/A;19474373]I think the bearing clearances listed are within reason for an aluminum block LS. I will differ to the expert engine builders on ghe forum for an informed opinion on that for the application.
I know LS requires 7 psi per 1,000 rpm normally to be OK so in theory 25 pounds warmed up at idle is ok. However, my 155,xxx mile stock bottom ls1 h& c TA holds 40+ pounds at hot idle with M1 5w-30. It has a ported Katech LS6 oil pump. On a new engine 25 pounds seems low.
Have you talked to who ported the oil pump?[/QUOTE
The guy who ported the pump is one of the best at want he does. I believe the clearance's could of been .0003/.0005 larger.
I know LS requires 7 psi per 1,000 rpm normally to be OK so in theory 25 pounds warmed up at idle is ok. However, my 155,xxx mile stock bottom ls1 h& c TA holds 40+ pounds at hot idle with M1 5w-30. It has a ported Katech LS6 oil pump. On a new engine 25 pounds seems low.
Have you talked to who ported the oil pump?[/QUOTE
The guy who ported the pump is one of the best at want he does. I believe the clearance's could of been .0003/.0005 larger.
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Rod Oil Flow My "guess" is AIR in the oil caused from low pan level at line racing.
My logic is that it was the #1 & #2 rod and front main that shower most wear.
MY MAIN CONCERN is the .002" Rod Clearance, for racing ?
The cylinder wear is from the rod debris.
The same with the crankshaft.
I too use crankshafts/rods from the Callies plant, NEVER seen a problem.
Lance
My logic is that it was the #1 & #2 rod and front main that shower most wear.
MY MAIN CONCERN is the .002" Rod Clearance, for racing ?
The cylinder wear is from the rod debris.
The same with the crankshaft.
I too use crankshafts/rods from the Callies plant, NEVER seen a problem.
Lance
My "guess" is AIR in the oil caused from low pan level at line racing.
My logic is that it was the #1 & #2 rod and front main that shower most wear.
MY MAIN CONCERN is the .002" Rod Clearance, for racing ?
The cylinder wear is from the rod debris.
The same with the crankshaft.
I too use crankshafts/rods from the Callies plant, NEVER seen a problem.
Lance
My logic is that it was the #1 & #2 rod and front main that shower most wear.
MY MAIN CONCERN is the .002" Rod Clearance, for racing ?
The cylinder wear is from the rod debris.
The same with the crankshaft.
I too use crankshafts/rods from the Callies plant, NEVER seen a problem.
Lance
Rod Oil Flow Hi, the mains were fine @ .002".
The Rod bearings NEED oil flow to cool that area, I like .003"-.0035" with .0032" most common when King Race bearings are fitted.
MY method is to "add" Oil Jets to the rod sides directing oil into the pin boss area.
Lance
The Rod bearings NEED oil flow to cool that area, I like .003"-.0035" with .0032" most common when King Race bearings are fitted.
MY method is to "add" Oil Jets to the rod sides directing oil into the pin boss area.
Lance