Right.....
As stated it is only a suggestion.
No one has to listen to or take any advice from anyone on this forum.
.

 

Couldn't agree more with this.

 

A thought for the OP, since this is turning a **** show thread again.

I would do some "basic" upgrades and inspections to make it live longer. Basic is ARP rod bolts, maybe re-hone it and put fresh rings, and check at least the rod bearing clearance and make sure you got enough(around .0022-.0026 is about right). Put a 10295 pump on it w/ COPO spring and hit it! Good luck!

 

For the love of jesus, please don't touch the rod bolts!! About zero need to rehone it or install fresh rings either. Jimminy fk's this place doesn't learn from the past at all lol

And skip the high pressure pump while your in there, especially not with the extra high pressure spring lol goodness, do people really do all this nonsense?

 

10295 is fine. It is the same volume as stock without the cavitation at upper RPMs. It's the 10296 that you have to worry about...

 

What are you going on about?
So just leave it completely stock and throw it in. Got it.

Dave simply recommended the minimum/easy stuff he can do to easily add some sensible insurance to the life of the engine. 10295 high pressure? No sir. Just better flow.

We can all argue all day about added insurance vs good tune crap. Yes, all it takes is a good tuner to make a lawn mower engine hold 1000hp - got it.
But on the other hand, how about giving that tuner a little bit of lee-way/room so that the tune doesn't have to be 110% accurate?

With your logic, just go stock-everything and go find a unicorn tuner, done and done.

Just doesn't work that way every time. You can show me a million near-stock SBE's holding XXXX amount of horse power - great. However, if I'm *ALREADY in the process* of having things torn down, then why in the world wouldn't I do some sensible/easy upgrades that aren't gonna break the bank, and potentially save me time later? I *ASSUME* the OP already had in mind of potentially getting in the engine and changing stuff around, so why not? None of that is going to break the bank. Rod Bolts, a quick hone for good seating, and a good oil pump.

And we're still gonna argue?

Thanks,
Andy

 

Pretty sure he said COPO spring which is +25 psi.

 

You gonna help Dave take a **** too? People screw up the rod bolt install more then they fix an actual problem. You are 100% better off skipping all that nonsense and just keeping a spare engine on standby. If your junkyard engine needs machine work then you are already doing it wrong. If spending any money at a machine shop then I would put real rods/pistons in it and call it a day, that's better then throwing money into the wind for useless mods.

 

You know that's a pressure release spring, right? It doesn't actually push more oil through the motor.

Pressure is a resistance to flow. So, to get more PSI while maintaining the same bearing clearance, you'd need a higher volume pump...

Also, this thread is getting a bit chippy for no reason.

If the OP has a good tune, decent plugs, and a Gen IV bottom end, I think anything under 800rwhp should be fine enough. A forged motor will provide more insurance. But at a cost. It's cheaper to buy half dozen JY 5.3s than it is to build a forged motor. So if pulling a motor is fun for the OP, it's the cheaper, easier option. But the original motor blew because he ran 30+psi with no tune/poor tune. A forged motor would have melted as well. He has to get it tuned and sorted so it doesn't happen again. If the budget is there, build up the bottom end. If not, get the car running. Running cars are better than jackstand cars...

 

I wouldn't say that. I think some are tired of people who've never built a boosted motor, let alone a SBE one, claiming that you NEED to forge it.

Ding Ding Ding
Winning

 

I keep trying to tell people this......

 

Aware but besides the point, I dont see a need for an aftermarket pump when stock works just fine for 1000hp and 8000rpm. Same with rod bolts, they aren't the failure point to spend money on. Spend the oil pump/rod bolt money on rods/pistons or buy a spare engine, rest is a waste.

Totally agree on running vs jackstand though! I’d rather flog a SBE then stare at a fancy motor in a garage.

 

OMG, don't touch the rod bolts!! Dude really? I have built enough of these and measured the rods before/after/during that clearance does not change much w/ the ARP's. A vast majority of guys have put them in blind and been fine. Where you can screw yourself with them is on a fresh build w/ new bearings and not checking clearance w/ fresh bearings. Are the stock rod bolts good? Sure, but making real power with a chance of a serious hiccup, why not put a better bolt in? At least put fresh stock bolts in. The rod bolts are most abused bolt in the motor and junkyard stuff is a complete unknown. It's ok to be budget in a build, but don't screw yourself for $60. That's like reusing the head gaskets... Regarding the pump, it's std volume, but I am recommending the super high pressure spring. I had a long conversation with Melling and learned a lot regarding the clearances vs pressures on these. On a over factory clearance motor, you need the stronger spring for sure and I am recommending the COPO spring because it also helps support the oil feed for the turbo and the crazy heat getting dumped into the oil. More pressure is better, at least in this case. W/ the COPO spring, he'll probably be n the 60's at WOT and that's about perfect for that type of combo. Same w/ rings, your JY motors might have perfect, but they are not all the same. A good ring seal and oil control ust makes it easier to tune and last longer, no rocket science. I have done all this and it all works, none of it is a big deal really, just common sense. It's the details that make it better and make it last. Can you just slap **** together and cross fingers? Sure, happens all the time, but why not make it a lot better with just a few little mods. Either way, just trying to help.

 

Can you explain this further? Something doesn't sound right to me or I'm reading it wrong. I know a little because I deal with water pumps/pressure/Head loss and so because I use varying sized electric water pumps in my other hobby.

 

Whenever we build a motor, looser bearing tolerances = lower oil pressure. Tighter = higher. You offset this with a higher volume pump and thicker oil to bring pressure up (if needed). Easiest analogy I have is if you have the same gallons per hour flow and restrict the hole (like putting your thumb on a garden hose), the pressure goes up. It's why cold, thicker oil shows a higher pressure as well.

The way the springs work in the oil pump is simply the relief valve... once pressure hits that, it releases pressure. It basically keeps oil pressure at a maximum but doesn't increase the minimum flow. That's dictated by volume of the pump (and bearing clearances and weight of the oil).

Melling has a long technical article on it: https://www.melling.com/aftermarket-...u-k/technical/

 

Lots of bad info all across this site on oil pumps. Here’s a tutorial from Melling explaining high pressure vs. high volume pumps. Takes two minutes to watch...

https://www.melling.com/videos/oil-p...e-explanation/

EDIT...Jake treed me...

 

Ya really, like I said complete waste of time! If you are messing with rod bolts and bearings then spend the same time/money and put in Gen 4 rods that people don't have any issues with. I see gen4 rod/piston sets sell for $100, that's a valid upgrade instead of messing with rod bolts and oil pumps lol. I just don't see it being worth the time to remotely mess with Gen3 internals, if they get unbolted they hit the garbage.

I run stock gen 4 oil pumps and I see 60+PSI, so again, what's the point of the aftermarket oil pump? I delete the oil pan bypass and let the pump run. You can get the same pressure with stock stuff, so I see it as a waste of money.

Now all that said, if its a fancy engine sure it gets a fancy pump... but a SBE budget build, naw.

 

The OP's motor is a Gen 4, it's an 09 block. That is why I said put ARP's in it and let it fly. Nowhere in the conversation did Gen 3 crap get brought up. I do agree w/ you, I would not bother putting ARP's in Gen 3 rods. As far as the oil pump, I do cars/motors for a living and I am not going to cheap out over $150 pump in a customer motor. Just not worth it. You can save $$$ somewhere else less critical.

 

I still see zero reason to do rod bolts, you can bend the rod well before the rod bolts let go. I've done it multiple times, gen4 internals 30+PSI, 7,500+RPM, rod bolts just aren't the failure point.

If a customer is paying for a fresh built engine I agree 100%. Generally, people don't pay shops top dollar to slap in a SBE engine, considering he said just slap in another SBE I assumed he was doing the work himself. Paying a shop $100 hour to install a $488 engine doesn't make much sense, if anyone is paying a shop to install an engine and isn't at least doing rods/pistons they might be mildly retarded lol

 

Yeah I understand all that, Like I said maybe I'm reading it wrong, I thought by the part I quoted above that you were implying that higher pressure does not equate to a higher volume of oil being pushed through the engine.