View Poll Results: LSX454 or LS7
LSX454
8
40.00%
LS7
12
60.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll
2002 Camaro SS - LSX454 or LS7?
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 60
Likes: 7
From: SF BAY AREA, CA
I would not go an LS3 427 due to the longer stroke causing the piston to come out of the bore at BDC.
Not recommended.
I don't recommend Dart heads either. Their blocks are A1 though. Probably the best on the market.
Have a read around on the forums and see what you may think suit.
Head selection depends on what you want the car to do.
If you haven't read my thread, there is good information in there from Tony Mamo about how each head differs and drives.
It's application specific.
If you could give us a more detailed description of what you want the vehicle to do/ drive and if part throttle response is important, RPM limit etc.
Then members on here could give you some more detailed feedback and suggest some options.
I have a couple of suggestions but I would like some more information first.
Not recommended.
I don't recommend Dart heads either. Their blocks are A1 though. Probably the best on the market.
Have a read around on the forums and see what you may think suit.
Head selection depends on what you want the car to do.
If you haven't read my thread, there is good information in there from Tony Mamo about how each head differs and drives.
It's application specific.
If you could give us a more detailed description of what you want the vehicle to do/ drive and if part throttle response is important, RPM limit etc.
Then members on here could give you some more detailed feedback and suggest some options.
I have a couple of suggestions but I would like some more information first.
I don't have any idea on RPM limit or anything. I just want a solid setup that's extremely reliable and gets up and goes when I step on it.
I will probably on go to the road course track for fun and not for competition. Other than that, I want a nice and beastly street car that I can daily drive.
As for numbers and specifics, I'm clueless. Im new to car builds, Harley's are my specialty, so forgive my ignorance.
I want good power from the engine without boost (yet) and I'm guessing a solid mid range response. I don't think I would need my performance at peak RPM as I'd like to stay under 6k driving to be safe.
Just my .02
You'll make more power with the adder on the 427 and with a 454 you'll be limited to NA.
TECH Addict
Joined: Sep 2010
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https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...34-engine.html
Have a read and ask some questions.
It sounds like you are wanting something similar to me.
Have a read and ask some questions.
It sounds like you are wanting something similar to me.
An iron block 416 would be a pretty good bang for the buck route. Something like this https://www.texas-speed.com/p-619-ts...ort-block.aspx Add a really nice set of small chamber heads. When/if you add boost, swap the heads to bigger chambered versions, swap the cam to a more blower friendly grind and you're good to go.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 60
Likes: 7
From: SF BAY AREA, CA
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...34-engine.html
Have a read and ask some questions.
It sounds like you are wanting something similar to me.
Have a read and ask some questions.
It sounds like you are wanting something similar to me.
It does seem as if I'm looking for similar to what you've got. I would rarely be at WOT and even in my Harley's I keep the power in the mid range because that's more realistic driving and riding for me.
I don't want peak numbers that I'll never be using just to show off a dyno sheet. I'd rather have usable power that makes me smile daily
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 60
Likes: 7
From: SF BAY AREA, CA
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 60
Likes: 7
From: SF BAY AREA, CA
An iron block 416 would be a pretty good bang for the buck route. Something like this https://www.texas-speed.com/p-619-ts...ort-block.aspx Add a really nice set of small chamber heads. When/if you add boost, swap the heads to bigger chambered versions, swap the cam to a more blower friendly grind and you're good to go.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 60
Likes: 7
From: SF BAY AREA, CA
Just met with the speed shop who will be doing the work with me.
His suggestion was a 416 built fresh. Says he can gaurantee me better power, reliability, and less expensive.
His suggestion was a 416 built fresh. Says he can gaurantee me better power, reliability, and less expensive.
You will miss the extra cubic inches pre blower, but you won't after you get blown. An extra half # of boost will make you whole vs the bigger cubic inch stuff. With an LS7 or an LSX 454, you're living on the edge with anything more than a little boost. I know lots have gotten away with it. If you're a big budget guy, absolutely go big or go home. I'd rather have a few more guided fishing trips and not worry about my engine scattering.
19420191 is the new higher hp ls7 gm will be releasing very soon
it's actually 12700......but it's designed to be a drop in motor so it's more simple of an install than a traditional ls7.
also go look at 416 dynos, I have never seen one make impressive numbers. the bore size is a limiting factor here. yea they can be done cheap but will make noticeably less power than a 427 with a 4.125 and identical heads. most struggle to make 560 rwhp with nice heads. and thed torque numbers are right around 500ish. most budget ls7 cars with ported stock castings can usually break 510 r wtq regardless of cam size. I'm not a fan of a bore size smaller than a 4.125 in a built N/A application unless u are shifting at least 7800 rpm. just my opinion. that's y I picked out a 4.125 x 4 inch 427.
it's actually 12700......but it's designed to be a drop in motor so it's more simple of an install than a traditional ls7.
also go look at 416 dynos, I have never seen one make impressive numbers. the bore size is a limiting factor here. yea they can be done cheap but will make noticeably less power than a 427 with a 4.125 and identical heads. most struggle to make 560 rwhp with nice heads. and thed torque numbers are right around 500ish. most budget ls7 cars with ported stock castings can usually break 510 r wtq regardless of cam size. I'm not a fan of a bore size smaller than a 4.125 in a built N/A application unless u are shifting at least 7800 rpm. just my opinion. that's y I picked out a 4.125 x 4 inch 427.
TECH Addict
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,898
Likes: 467
I agree with the above posts OP.
Get at least a 427 for the reasons mentioned.
If you are certain you will not go boost go LS7.
If you think boost will definitely be a possibility go the LSX otherwise you will limit yourself to this option.
That bigger bore will make a lot more power.
Mine is a 4.155 bore with a 4 inch stroke.
Get at least a 427 for the reasons mentioned.
If you are certain you will not go boost go LS7.
If you think boost will definitely be a possibility go the LSX otherwise you will limit yourself to this option.
That bigger bore will make a lot more power.
Mine is a 4.155 bore with a 4 inch stroke.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 60
Likes: 7
From: SF BAY AREA, CA
You will miss the extra cubic inches pre blower, but you won't after you get blown. An extra half # of boost will make you whole vs the bigger cubic inch stuff. With an LS7 or an LSX 454, you're living on the edge with anything more than a little boost. I know lots have gotten away with it. If you're a big budget guy, absolutely go big or go home. I'd rather have a few more guided fishing trips and not worry about my engine scattering.
Although the bigger cubic inches were discussed they both advised against it due to reliability issues. That was important for me. I want to be able to drive anywhere at any time. The LSX and LS7, according to them, have too many problems to fix without the numbers to match it.
Hence the recommendations for a stroked LS3.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 60
Likes: 7
From: SF BAY AREA, CA
19420191 is the new higher hp ls7 gm will be releasing very soon
it's actually 12700......but it's designed to be a drop in motor so it's more simple of an install than a traditional ls7.
also go look at 416 dynos, I have never seen one make impressive numbers. the bore size is a limiting factor here. yea they can be done cheap but will make noticeably less power than a 427 with a 4.125 and identical heads. most struggle to make 560 rwhp with nice heads. and thed torque numbers are right around 500ish. most budget ls7 cars with ported stock castings can usually break 510 r wtq regardless of cam size. I'm not a fan of a bore size smaller than a 4.125 in a built N/A application unless u are shifting at least 7800 rpm. just my opinion. that's y I picked out a 4.125 x 4 inch 427.
it's actually 12700......but it's designed to be a drop in motor so it's more simple of an install than a traditional ls7.
also go look at 416 dynos, I have never seen one make impressive numbers. the bore size is a limiting factor here. yea they can be done cheap but will make noticeably less power than a 427 with a 4.125 and identical heads. most struggle to make 560 rwhp with nice heads. and thed torque numbers are right around 500ish. most budget ls7 cars with ported stock castings can usually break 510 r wtq regardless of cam size. I'm not a fan of a bore size smaller than a 4.125 in a built N/A application unless u are shifting at least 7800 rpm. just my opinion. that's y I picked out a 4.125 x 4 inch 427.
I will keep looking into this for sure.
He says he can get me 550 to the wheel no problem on the 416 ls3 based built engine.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 60
Likes: 7
From: SF BAY AREA, CA
I agree with the above posts OP.
Get at least a 427 for the reasons mentioned.
If you are certain you will not go boost go LS7.
If you think boost will definitely be a possibility go the LSX otherwise you will limit yourself to this option.
That bigger bore will make a lot more power.
Mine is a 4.155 bore with a 4 inch stroke.
Get at least a 427 for the reasons mentioned.
If you are certain you will not go boost go LS7.
If you think boost will definitely be a possibility go the LSX otherwise you will limit yourself to this option.
That bigger bore will make a lot more power.
Mine is a 4.155 bore with a 4 inch stroke.
My stock LS1 is nice. I can ONLY IMAGINE a fully built engine
TECH Addict
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,898
Likes: 467
That's exactly what they were saying too. The speed shop and the tuner are right next door so they were able to come together for a good plan while all 3 of us were talking.
Although the bigger cubic inches were discussed they both advised against it due to reliability issues. That was important for me. I want to be able to drive anywhere at any time. The LSX and LS7, according to them, have too many problems to fix without the numbers to match it.
Hence the recommendations for a stroked LS3.
Although the bigger cubic inches were discussed they both advised against it due to reliability issues. That was important for me. I want to be able to drive anywhere at any time. The LSX and LS7, according to them, have too many problems to fix without the numbers to match it.
Hence the recommendations for a stroked LS3.
When an LS7 or an LSX get built right it should be no different reliability wise NA compared to a 416 LS3.
The 416 and 427 use the same stroke and the 427 has the longer cylinder sleeves to support the piston at BDC which is better for reliability.
The LSX is also far stronger than the LS7 due to the iron construction.
Maybe someone else can chime in and comment here.
I was told that with boost you can go 4.155 bore max and run a moderate amount.
No more than a 4.125 for max boost.
As stated, for a boosted motor you will need to use the LSX.
While you are at it you should ask these guys what they think of the Dart Blocks.
TECH Addict
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,898
Likes: 467
That was my initial thought too, "No replacement for displacement," as bigger is always better. But, after hearing them breaking it all down in detail, and guaranteeing me more power for less dollar, with better reliability, I'm leaning towards their recommendations.
I will keep looking into this for sure.
He says he can get me 550 to the wheel no problem on the 416 ls3 based built engine.
I will keep looking into this for sure.
He says he can get me 550 to the wheel no problem on the 416 ls3 based built engine.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 60
Likes: 7
From: SF BAY AREA, CA
I don't see how that makes any sense.
When an LS7 or an LSX get built right it should be no different reliability wise NA compared to a 416 LS3.
The 416 and 427 use the same stroke and the 427 has the longer cylinder sleeves to support the piston at BDC which is better for reliability.
The LSX is also far stronger than the LS7 due to the iron construction.
Maybe someone else can chime in and comment here.
I was told that with boost you can go 4.155 bore max and run a moderate amount.
No more than a 4.125 for max boost.
As stated, for a boosted motor you will need to use the LSX.
While you are at it you should ask these guys what they think of the Dart Blocks.
When an LS7 or an LSX get built right it should be no different reliability wise NA compared to a 416 LS3.
The 416 and 427 use the same stroke and the 427 has the longer cylinder sleeves to support the piston at BDC which is better for reliability.
The LSX is also far stronger than the LS7 due to the iron construction.
Maybe someone else can chime in and comment here.
I was told that with boost you can go 4.155 bore max and run a moderate amount.
No more than a 4.125 for max boost.
As stated, for a boosted motor you will need to use the LSX.
While you are at it you should ask these guys what they think of the Dart Blocks.
Basically they were saying the LS7 and LSX isn't the best option for what I want and that they can build the LS3 based block for a better price with better numbers compared to the stock LS7.
Dollar for dollar they don't recommend the ls7 or lsx due to known problems they experience with them
TECH Addict
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,898
Likes: 467