Hello everyone.

I posted a similar thread in the Newbie Tech section and it was a great help. So much good information and advice. I had decided on (and am still 99% sure) I want to do an L33 build to go into my Triumph TR7 but they are getting harder to find. I am seeing the LC9's though and wanted some opinions.

Some quick details on the TR7.....

Total weight after engine and trans swap approximately 2600 lbs.
Tremec T-56 Magnum (probably wide ratio)
Ford 8.8 (easiest to swap into a TR7) with either a 3.27 or 3.31 gear
195/60/15 or 205/50/16 (basically a 24" tire)

I know the L33 didn't have AFM or VVT so that is a plus. Simpler system definitely. But again, it seem the L33 is getting harder to find. The LC9 though seems easier to find. I would definitely being getting rid of the AFM, but the VVT seems like something I might want to keep if I were to go the LC9 route. About the only thing I would be "upgrading" is the cam. To what I have no idea and that would be a discussion I would have to have with the knowledge base here and at a shop. I know the VVT would limit the cam choices, but I'm not looking for a high hp build. 325'ish rwhp is plenty. From what little I have read (and understand) a better VVT cam (over the stock one) would give a broader power band "under the curve". I'm planning on a highway cruiser with plenty of light to light get up and go. More available torque for low rpm cruising and better high rpm "oomph". I'm still working my way through the threads about the 58x reluctor wheel and still haven't entirely grasped the concept. I understand that VVT isn't doable with a 24x ?

So, with all that being said, what are your opinions on using an LC9 rather than the L33. I'm not asking you to talk me out of the L33, but help me understand the pro's and con's of the two. Again I still prefer going the L33 route and am in no real hurry, but It might be easier, instead of searching for that needle in the haystack to just use one of the pitchforks that are laying nearby.

Again, I haven't abandoned my other post int he Newbie Tech section or the wealth of information that was offered and greatly appreciated there. I just thought this question would be better asked here. Just tryinjg to explore all my options and lay out a solid plan before going out and start sourcing parts.

Thanks again to everyone who has led me this far.

 

If you can score a decent deal on an L33, do it.
Having said that, it would be fun to explore the VVT scene. Power under the curve is a Good Thing!
Best plan there is to call TSP &/or Cam Motion.
They do VVT cams and are the "Pros from Dover" when it comes to LS cams.

 

I may or may not be selling my L33 here in nj soon...where are you located?

 

I'm about 45 miles east of Iowa. About 10 miles from the middle of nowhere. LoL

 

Reach out to Randy Yates of yatesefi. He seems to be able to find the L33s, i got mine from him many years ago though. He is local to you and he sometimes posts here.

I had a Triumph TR7, loved that wedge, only problem is rust got the best of mine. Really a roomy car for what it was.

 

LH6, LH8, LC9 vs. L33 any day of the week. The Gen4 block is better in many ways.

 

I had a TR7 Convertible (1980 Spyder) back in the late 80s. Before the Miata arrived on the scene, it was the most modern convertible sports car you could get. But in my experience, it was a good example of why the British car industry vaporized. An LS swap would be a great improvement. Faster *and* more reliable.

My understanding of VVT is that it would make it more difficult to get adequate PTV clearance with any kind of wilder cam. Maybe the cam companies know to work around this and how much you can get away with, but it's a consideration.

 

You are right about that. I was a TR7 owner when the Miata came out, and went and sat in a new Miata at the local dealer. It was definitely not as roomy as the TR7.

 

Thanks for the information about Yates. They are about an hour or so away.


64post.....Can you explain what you mean by "better" for the LC9? I thought the L33 was a "transitional" engine. Gen 3 block with Gen 4 "upgrades"?

grubinski.....PTV I am assuming is piston to valve clearance? If I'm looking at a complete pull out with heads included (not aftermarket) wouldn't that be taken care of already? Unless, that's something I'm not understanding clearly yet. (Meaning how that clearance is changed with the cam? I'm still learning as I go) As for cam selection I would have to talk to the experts, but I don't think it would be in the "wild" category. Maybe "mid to low-mid mild" if that makes any sense. The TR7 being so light, I have to be careful how "stout" I want to build this. But from everything I have read so far, a cam swap would really "wake the engine up". More power "under the curve" would be great, but I will have to balance that out with having too much low end torque. More is always better, but only up to a point.

Again, the L33 seems like a simpler system, but if there is a REAL advantage to the LC9 then I may start to investigate that option also. Maybe I'll make two spreadsheets and then compare the two to help make my final decision. I'm still a student in the LS world, but all I'm seeing is the AFM (which I would be getting rid of) and the VVT for differences in the two. That and the drive by cable vs. the drive by wire. Not sure yet how big a difference or headache that might be.

Thank you all for your patience and help.

 

Just a thought, go 6.0 alum block. Building a NA 5.3 is almost a waste. "For a few dollars more" you can have bigger motor, same weight and way more power of options. For me, when I hear 5.3, it's a boost motor-that's all. Yes, you can do a 5.7 bore it out of a 5.3, but 6.0's are even better and still out there. Just a thought...

Also, the AFM is a non-point. Just convert it to standard cam and done. Conversion is super simple, just search for it. Gen 4 blocks way superior to Gen 3, in general.

 

Thanks DualQuadDave. I had already considered the L76 and started a thread in the Newbie Tech forum about it.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/new-ls1-o...ally-want.html

With the car being so small (Triumph TR7 at about 2600 lbs) and really wanting a highway cruiser and not so much a street car, I decided the smaller displacement would be fine and a good starting point. With cam / intake / exhaust / tune I figure I could get to around 325+ rwhp (400'ish flywheel?). The little slant 4 that was in there was only good for 110 hp and that was probably only about 90 rwhp. The 5.3 should be plenty for my needs. If I decide later that it just isn't enough, then I might explore a turbo set up, but I'm not going to even consider jumping down that rabbit hole at this point. Or with the LS blocks being basically the same physically, I could sell the 5.3 and look into something else. But If I'm going to do that then I'd probably bypass the 6.0 and head straight to the LS3 / L99 6.2.

I thought I read that just converting to a standard cam to get rid of AFM could lead to misfiring in the "deactivated" cylinders? Still a bit beyond my scope of knowledge at this point.

 

When you delete AFM, if you change the cam, you also change lifters. Not just the cam.
Also the valley cover, to plug the tower holes. And of course you change the tune.

 

Thanks G Atsma. That makes sense. With this Covid thing at least I have plenty of time to read and learn more. This VVT thing is interesting to me. I have to wonder if it's still new enough that there aren't as many options as compared to the older Gen 3 stuff. Sounds like it does make the engine more efficient. So much more to learn.

Thanks again.

 

VVT in LS engines has been around for about 15 years. it is worth exploiting, but most would rather stay old school with fixed cam timing.
You hit on the one thing not enough guys do- READ ALL YOU CAN ON WHAT YOU WANT TO GET INTO. And you will learn whatever you want to know.

 

I don’t think you can bore an L33 out the same way you can Like any of the blocks I mentioned. I bored an LH6 out .123” to 3.903 and made a 347 out of it. The Gen4 block weighs 118 lbs, not sure what an L33 weighs, so it has a lot of extra material including the much thicker bulkheads and the Gen4 aluminum 5.3 is a block that can be resleeved to accept big bore sleeves, I don’t think you can do that to an L33. The Gen4 4 block has Siamese cylinders ( no water passage between cylinders) the Gen4 is better imo.

 

Thanks G Atsma. Reading and learning is where I usually start. It's the mild OCD in me. With me being new to LSx's (not new to engines in general) sometimes I feel a little behind the curve here.

Thanks 64post. I have read the L33 has fairly thick sleeves and can be safely bored out to be a 5.7 (LS2 size?) It's a moot point for me though. I really want to just get it started (in a logical and safe way) so I can start to figure out all the "custom" mounting parts I'm probably going to have to fab up. A 5.3 in mostly stock form is a good starting point. I think the only changes I want to make at the beginning are dealing with the AFM (if it has it) any upgrades to the heads I may need for either the new cam or just for general efficiency and the cam. Then I'll have to investigate exhaust manifolds and lay out the custom exhaust to fit the TR7. I saw a really cool one where they used the exposed side exhaust and mufflers from a Corvette, but it was a TON of work and changed the lines of the car a bit. It had to have been pretty loud inside on long trips.

As for the intake manifold I wish the TBSS one fit, but it's too tall. It will have to be the LS6 or the Dorman one I have heard of. Something like an LS2 bottom half and an LS6 top half? I'll have to see if I can find that article again.

Thanks again everyone for all the advice.

 

The Dorman LS6 is pretty much a copy of the OEM one.
The Dorman LS2 is a different story, being essentially made with old FAST tooling, making it far better than the OEM LS2 manifold. That might be why Dorman did it that way

 

Thanks G Atsma. I's pretty sure that the Dorman LS2 is the one I was thinking of. I have yet to see one compared in size to a stock LS2/6 intake. I know the LS6 fits because I have seen it done in a TR7. I'm assuming that they are nearly identical in physical size.

 

Dimensionally they are very close. This is true for all car intakes. Truck ones are all taller.

 

Now I need to figure out if I really want to deal with the VVT idea. Should I start a new thread about that or just continue the discussion here?

I can see the benefits of it, but other than limiting some of my "upgrade options" I don't know what other downsides there may be. I know the AFM can cause problems. Something about clogged oil passages and burning up pistons if I remember right. That in itself is a great reason to get rid of it. But are there inherent problems with VVT in a NON-performance yet "upgraded" build? I've bee trying to search the forums here, but most of the posts are about getting rid of VVT rather than possibly keeping it. I can see the reasons the OP's want to ditch it, but their goals are usually different than mine.

This is probably not the basic LS build that people are used to seeing here. Not shooting for peak hp / tq numbers, but definitely better than stock numbers across the board. Not a strip/track car or auto-crosser and not a dedicated street car or "boulevard bruiser". Just a nearly 50 year old car that I can comfortably cruise to places and pop open a few eyes when I get there.

Thanks again everyone for your patience and knowledge. Let me know if I should start a new discussion for the VVT learning.

EDIT: I may have answered my question but I'm not sure. Is VVT only available on automatics? I definitely want the 6-speed manual.