Stealth cam ?
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From: Little River SC
Stealth cam ? Have a 2012 LS3 Corvette. A6 with a Yank SS3600. Long tubes. GPI rod mod intake. Unlike a lot of people, I don’t want to put in a cam just to hear “the chop”. If it sounded like stock, even better. Could probably raise idle speed to 750 or so to smooth idle out ( stock is about 550). Looking to make some real power, any camshaft ideas?
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From: Central Cal.
Define "real power". A cam that idles even close to stock won't gain more than about 50 HP. Now raise the idle about 200RPM and more possibilities open up.
A stock LS3 puts out about 430 HP. For example, the next power level in a crate motor is 480 HP with the GM Hot Cam (219/228, .525/.525, 112 LSA). It lopes a bit at stock idle, and is a very old design. A more modern cam might get a little more power and lope as much or a little less.
Summit makes a very similar cam, SUM-8720R1 (218/227, .600/.600, 112+2 LSA.) with more modern profiles and way more lift (.600 vs .525). And at $299.99 is a good deal. You will need to get springs with more lift capacity
Is this what you are looking for?
A stock LS3 puts out about 430 HP. For example, the next power level in a crate motor is 480 HP with the GM Hot Cam (219/228, .525/.525, 112 LSA). It lopes a bit at stock idle, and is a very old design. A more modern cam might get a little more power and lope as much or a little less.
Summit makes a very similar cam, SUM-8720R1 (218/227, .600/.600, 112+2 LSA.) with more modern profiles and way more lift (.600 vs .525). And at $299.99 is a good deal. You will need to get springs with more lift capacity
Is this what you are looking for?
Last edited by G Atsma; Dec 14, 2021 at 12:43 AM.
What exhaust is on the Corvette? Is it a free flowing quiet exhaust?
Hiding a cam can be as much about the exhaust and quiet valve train on the car as anything else. That and telling the tuner do not tune in any lope tune it out as much as possible. A good tuner can accommodate that to a large degree. Cams on a 114 LSA in my opinion always hid better than 112 LSA cams.
I have a 230/230 cam that's nearly impossible to detect at idle. It's passed for stock all the time in a 383 LS1 because of a quiet exhaust. Have been told many times you really need to put a cam in that stock LS1.Twin Electric cut outs off the header collectors open up the exhaust for track etc.
FWIW - the old 218/229 Hot Cam on a 112 LSA stood out like a sore thumb at idle in my experience. Everyone in the club could tell the SS with the Hot Cam. It sounded way meaner and more cammed than my tame sounding nearly stock sounding heads and cam car with a 224/224 113 LSA cam.
Hiding a cam can be as much about the exhaust and quiet valve train on the car as anything else. That and telling the tuner do not tune in any lope tune it out as much as possible. A good tuner can accommodate that to a large degree. Cams on a 114 LSA in my opinion always hid better than 112 LSA cams.
I have a 230/230 cam that's nearly impossible to detect at idle. It's passed for stock all the time in a 383 LS1 because of a quiet exhaust. Have been told many times you really need to put a cam in that stock LS1.Twin Electric cut outs off the header collectors open up the exhaust for track etc.
FWIW - the old 218/229 Hot Cam on a 112 LSA stood out like a sore thumb at idle in my experience. Everyone in the club could tell the SS with the Hot Cam. It sounded way meaner and more cammed than my tame sounding nearly stock sounding heads and cam car with a 224/224 113 LSA cam.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; Dec 14, 2021 at 06:37 AM.
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From: Central Cal.
I just took out the SUM-8715 because it sounded too stock and I wanted more power/RPM to match the rest of the setup. With any sort of actual muffler its stock to 97.8% of people when ran at 850 RPM idle with 20* or so of idle timing there was no chop, no lope, no nothing and it glides through our inspection/emission testing. My friend heard it and we are going to put the ghost cam in his daily driver 1500 truck. Had another friend just take out his SUM-8717 cam as well because it didn't have any lope and peaked too early with added cubes. If you look the 8715 has -2* overlap and the 8717 only has 1* so you aren't getting any chop chop scene points from either one.
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From: Central Cal.
Not saying it chops, but you can DEFINITELY hear the difference. How many stock cars idle at 850?
Even the old standby 212/218 112 has distinct non-stock sound. Not putting anything down (I actually like a mild lope) but you CAN tell the difference.
Even the old standby 212/218 112 has distinct non-stock sound. Not putting anything down (I actually like a mild lope) but you CAN tell the difference.
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Plenty of stock cars idle at 850, just not many GM V8's. Like I and others said its exhaust dependent on what you hear, his statement didnt make it seem like he had straight pipes but a lot of guys keep NPP mufflers because they flow enough for most setups and are tame when cruising. Not sure what you example is for, but a 212/218 in an LS3 is a waste of time.
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Verdad Gallardo What exhaust is on the Corvette? Is it a free flowing quiet exhaust?
Hiding a cam can be as much about the exhaust and quiet valve train on the car as anything else. That and telling the tuner do not tune in any lope tune it out as much as possible. A good tuner can accommodate that to a large degree. Cams on a 114 LSA in my opinion always hid better than 112 LSA cams.
I have a 230/230 cam that's nearly impossible to detect at idle. It's passed for stock all the time in a 383 LS1 because of a quiet exhaust. Have been told many times you really need to put a cam in that stock LS1.Twin Electric cut outs off the header collectors open up the exhaust for track etc.
FWIW - the old 218/229 Hot Cam on a 112 LSA stood out like a sore thumb at idle in my experience. Everyone in the club could tell the SS with the Hot Cam. It sounded way meaner and more cammed than my tame sounding nearly stock sounding heads and cam car with a 224/224 113 LSA cam.
Hiding a cam can be as much about the exhaust and quiet valve train on the car as anything else. That and telling the tuner do not tune in any lope tune it out as much as possible. A good tuner can accommodate that to a large degree. Cams on a 114 LSA in my opinion always hid better than 112 LSA cams.
I have a 230/230 cam that's nearly impossible to detect at idle. It's passed for stock all the time in a 383 LS1 because of a quiet exhaust. Have been told many times you really need to put a cam in that stock LS1.Twin Electric cut outs off the header collectors open up the exhaust for track etc.
FWIW - the old 218/229 Hot Cam on a 112 LSA stood out like a sore thumb at idle in my experience. Everyone in the club could tell the SS with the Hot Cam. It sounded way meaner and more cammed than my tame sounding nearly stock sounding heads and cam car with a 224/224 113 LSA cam.
What exhaust is on the Corvette? Is it a free flowing quiet exhaust?
Hiding a cam can be as much about the exhaust and quiet valve train on the car as anything else. That and telling the tuner do not tune in any lope tune it out as much as possible. A good tuner can accommodate that to a large degree. Cams on a 114 LSA in my opinion always hid better than 112 LSA cams.
I have a 230/230 cam that's nearly impossible to detect at idle. It's passed for stock all the time in a 383 LS1 because of a quiet exhaust. Have been told many times you really need to put a cam in that stock LS1.Twin Electric cut outs off the header collectors open up the exhaust for track etc.
FWIW - the old 218/229 Hot Cam on a 112 LSA stood out like a sore thumb at idle in my experience. Everyone in the club could tell the SS with the Hot Cam. It sounded way meaner and more cammed than my tame sounding nearly stock sounding heads and cam car with a 224/224 113 LSA cam.
Hiding a cam can be as much about the exhaust and quiet valve train on the car as anything else. That and telling the tuner do not tune in any lope tune it out as much as possible. A good tuner can accommodate that to a large degree. Cams on a 114 LSA in my opinion always hid better than 112 LSA cams.
I have a 230/230 cam that's nearly impossible to detect at idle. It's passed for stock all the time in a 383 LS1 because of a quiet exhaust. Have been told many times you really need to put a cam in that stock LS1.Twin Electric cut outs off the header collectors open up the exhaust for track etc.
FWIW - the old 218/229 Hot Cam on a 112 LSA stood out like a sore thumb at idle in my experience. Everyone in the club could tell the SS with the Hot Cam. It sounded way meaner and more cammed than my tame sounding nearly stock sounding heads and cam car with a 224/224 113 LSA cam.
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From: Central Cal.
There are situations that don't want or need a lot more than stock, BUT still need different characteristics than a stock cam. Even if someone would just grind stock duration and lift BUT shrink the LSA to 113 from the OEM 117, it would add a bunch of low end torque and still run well on top. Not everyone needs a thumper...
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They did a cam test on an ls3 in the november 2009 GM-High Tech magazine with roughly your same requirements. I would like to read it if someone can get me a copy.
Just sharing my real world experiences with this over the last 22 years. Everyones mileage may vary.
Single pattern or small splits of the early days don't stand out as much as the popular big splits do today. Add in a good pair of free flowing cats 🐈 😻 and it's pretty amazing what can pass for stock from what I've seen. Gas smell and noisy valve trains are also tells.
In 15 years the 224 cam in the heads & cam LS1 was "noticed" exactly twice. Once in an enclosed parking deck with lots of echo and once in a parking lot by a hard core drag racer. The rest of the time folks assumed my wife's stock 02 Z28 with a loud Flowmaster catback was the heads & cam car...lol.
With the cutouts closed the 383 LS1 has passed as stock 7 years running
I've seen folks assume a friend's FireHawk with a Corsa was the stroker LS1 car between the two cars. It's pretty funny getting told over and over to put a cam in your stock LS1 when it's anything but stock.230/230 on 114 in a 383 LS1 will sound like a 224/224 in a 346 LS1. I had both with a Y pipe & SLP Dual/Dual catback. Definitely a stroker cam mask certain cams very effectively.
Now the loud true dual exhaust 416 that's in the T/A now, it's obvious the car is cammed. (236/245 on 114) When the 416 had the Y pipe & SLP Dual/Dual it was noticeable if you listened carefully.
Likewise, it's instantly obvious my 72 vette w/Dart 400 is cammed. Its just a 230/236 on a 110 LSA but that 110 gives it away as plus the exhaust isn't quite.
Last edited by 99 Black Bird T/A; Dec 14, 2021 at 07:54 PM.
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OP,
We think Mavn solved this back on post #4. The SUM-8715R1 "Ghost" cam is an excellent candidate for what you're looking for. We designed the 8715R1 to be "stealthy", but make good power at the same time. Specs on it are .600/.575, 222/234, 115+3 with -2* of overlap. We're assuming that a "stock" idle isn't a requirement. You just don't want some window-rattling chop monster. You want to make good power, but don't want to put up with all the hassle of a "BIG" cam. If it's got a bit of a lope to it that's ok. If we're wrong on this assumption let us know. With an idle speed around 850-900, you'll get a smooth idle out of the Ghost cam. Depending on your "sound/lope" tolerance that may even be able to be lower.
To show how easy the Ghost cam is to get along with in an LS3 check out the video below from Mavn. This is in the auto C6 he mentioned in post #4.
The Ghost cam has been used in a wide variety of applications. It's quite popular for LS3's for the exact reasons you're looking for. It will have a nice wide powerband and be very easy to get along with. With Trickflow by PAC TFS-16918-16 .600" beehives, it will be happy out to 6,800+ RPM. If you're one for added insurance we offer Trickflow TFS-2500286P double platinum .660" duals.
We know our customers like combos so with every Pro LS cam there are a variety of combos available. There are different cam and spring packages or ones that include a gasket/install kit. For all available Ghost cam combos check here.
Let us know your thoughts. Your stall, headers, exhaust, and rod mod intake will really help the Ghost cam shine in this combo. We think it will be an absolute joy to drive even if you got the itch to take it on a long-distance trip
We think Mavn solved this back on post #4. The SUM-8715R1 "Ghost" cam is an excellent candidate for what you're looking for. We designed the 8715R1 to be "stealthy", but make good power at the same time. Specs on it are .600/.575, 222/234, 115+3 with -2* of overlap. We're assuming that a "stock" idle isn't a requirement. You just don't want some window-rattling chop monster. You want to make good power, but don't want to put up with all the hassle of a "BIG" cam. If it's got a bit of a lope to it that's ok. If we're wrong on this assumption let us know. With an idle speed around 850-900, you'll get a smooth idle out of the Ghost cam. Depending on your "sound/lope" tolerance that may even be able to be lower.
To show how easy the Ghost cam is to get along with in an LS3 check out the video below from Mavn. This is in the auto C6 he mentioned in post #4.
The Ghost cam has been used in a wide variety of applications. It's quite popular for LS3's for the exact reasons you're looking for. It will have a nice wide powerband and be very easy to get along with. With Trickflow by PAC TFS-16918-16 .600" beehives, it will be happy out to 6,800+ RPM. If you're one for added insurance we offer Trickflow TFS-2500286P double platinum .660" duals.
We know our customers like combos so with every Pro LS cam there are a variety of combos available. There are different cam and spring packages or ones that include a gasket/install kit. For all available Ghost cam combos check here.
Let us know your thoughts. Your stall, headers, exhaust, and rod mod intake will really help the Ghost cam shine in this combo. We think it will be an absolute joy to drive even if you got the itch to take it on a long-distance trip
I'm a big fan of the Lingenfelter GT11 or the Hawk's Cheatr cam(same grind, different lobes). Makes power all over the place and has a silent, stock 650rpm idle. It's a 215/231 118lsa. Really like it a lot.