Here's some that will ***-rape an LS7: Ready to drop in, hook up all the crap that is already on your old LSx engine, COMPLETE ENGINE's. And, wow, with full warranties.

1st ***-raper:
http://www.w2wpowertrain.com/pc-79-7...ls2-crate.aspx

second ***-raping:
http://www.cartek.net/parts/engines/...smanmain.html#

***-rape 3: Add up the other things you need and its still cheaper than an LS7:
http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...id=43&catid=20

***-rape 4:
http://www.w2wpowertrain.com/pc-77-7...lock-plus.aspx


Remember, this thread is about money spent for a certain level of performance. A 450 RWHP (less torque) LS7 isn't going to compete with any engine available from a sponsor. The second you mod the LS7 in any way, the warranty that people think they have if they leave it stock is CERTAINLY voided. But I think people will have a rude awakening when they try to collect on any warranty issues even if they leave them bone stock, because there's too many variables that are going to effect the LS7 "approved equipment and associated parts" list for a retrofit. GM will win the VOID fight every time. But everyone will want to mod tham because 450 RWHP is just pathetic these days, that = warranty gone. And most people like to spray a little juice, well watch out with the cast pistons.

This really isn't an argument, unless a person wants to be an idiot and piece together a motor like the list you made, it will cost alot of money. Thats why you go to a proven sponsor with a 2yr/24,000 mile warranty and buy a package long or short block. Thats why I didn't waste my time coming up with "numbers", I already know whats available out there and I know what its going to take to get the LS7 running properly in a car.

I understand the LS7 has alot of potential, but only with no warranty. Thats the whole purpose of the thread...to try and understand why in the world someone would rather not just buy a much more powerful engine, with better all around parts and a WARRANTY.

still


.

 

Shouldn't there be another 2 or 3 grand to step up to titanium rods like the stock LS7? And do you get Ti valves in a set of $3,000 heads from ET?

 

I'm going to assume that you're not calling me an idiot because the numbers I put together speak for themselves. Secondly, a 550hp 402 LS2 will not "***-rape" even a stock LS7. Put headers on an LS7 and it will make 550hp with the stock cam.

You never made your case here. It is certainly not $6k cheaper for a motor built stronger with premium components as you can see by the numbers.

I won't argue the warranty issue....but then it's no different than spending $70K for the Z06 car and modifying the motor...same difference, peace!

 

Like mentioned earlier, there is no reason to spend money on titanium parts, they aren't going to offer anything measurable by way of HP and the existing parts that are used by all the builders are making over 1,000 RWHP and work perfeclty.

Titanium parts in the LS7 engine are only for conversation. Or for serious drag racing engines, but we're talking about daily drivers. Titanium parts (crank, rods, valves) in 2 otherwise identical engines (427 strokers) will most likely show very little, if anything at all, on the dyno or on the street.

For these applications, titanium = waste-o-cash

 

In response to the "cheap cast pistons" comment, you can blame all the "piston slap" whiners for that.

After all the "piston slap warranty issues" GM has delt with, they will (probably) never install forged pistons in anything they build, due to the clearances neccesary, and the increased likeliness of a "piston slap" complaint.

 

Why doesn't FORD have problems with putting forged pistons in the 03' Cobras? FORD also doesn't have piston slap problems?

 

IMO, I think it was lifters all along. Then again, I just work for a Chevy dealer, and we don't know anything.

 

Warranty or no, a re-sleeved block is not comparable to the LS7 block. Many shops will not EVEN EXIST in 24 months

Not everybody likes having their $10-15K engine pulled every 3 months to
fix block-related issues - and it is an observation of mine that every sleeved
block (all types/designs) eventually suffers issues - it would only make sense to compare a sponsor-built engine featuring a C5R block

 

You bought a crate engine already built, so I assumed that you weren't one of those people that went out and bought everything piece-by-piece, which is obviously the most expensive way to do it, and...no warranty on the engine.

My engine for instance, a 436 stroker, costs about $13-14,000 from a sponsor with approximately 550 RWHP and approximately 550 RWTQ, 2yr/24,000 mile warranty. Less money if you use all the parts from the old LS1 that's in everyones car already, like I did. My 436 stroker cost about $13,500, with an LS6 intake, lid, 36 lb injectors, ASP pulley and a ported LS6 oil pump and stage III ARE heads. You have to call around and actually talk with shops to get what you want. And it will be built with BETTER all around, all forged parts and can be sprayed to death if you wanted to lose the warranty. But it would be safe to do it. The LS7 pistons could melt and you will lose the warranty. To change them would be about a $3,000 venture with R&R, disassembly, piston purchase, rings, honing and reassembly.

An LS7 retrofit will certainly cost more, at least a few thousand more when all is said and done. Maybe not $6,000. I'm going by the threads where PCM's, harnesses, tuning, etc are going to cost alot and thats without modding it. It will have about 100 RWHP less, 100+ RWTQ less in stock form, and most likely, unless you know someone...NO WARRANTY with a crate engine because they will void it for almost any reason. 100 RWHP more in any car will kill an 06' Z06. If you want to add LT's and a cam and (a tune when it comes available) to get it to 550 RWHP to compete with the above mentioned engine you will DEFINITELY have NO warranty.

Again, this really boils down to a warranty issue for an engine that will cost more in the end, maybe not as much as I first thought, but its also yet to be seen how much this will cost.

I guess we'll see. If anything, the LS7 crate engines will be bringing down the price on sponsor built strokers too.

 

Every 3 months Who's building junk engines like that. My engine is going on 2 years this May. Perfect except for a puff of smoke I get when I hit the gas to the floor. Figuring out what it is next week hopefully, maybe its nothing.


.

 

Obviously, I exaggerated on the 3 months (YMMV...), but you know what I mean - we've all seen the threads....

Your points about the cost of the LS7 crate are not completely without
merit; many of us are simply waiting for the factory components (i.e. L92 block or similar) to become available to build a similar engine for half the cost. Most won't ever need the Ti crap, but it is there and any proper comparison would include it....

 

WHAT about the block....why don't you make a poll, and see how many OTHER people think the resleeved blocks are as reliable as the factory blocks

 

Why? The LS7 isn't a sleeved block?

 

It's not REsleeved that's for sure and that's what he said. Gotta get them bifocals on.

 

So can it be resleeved if need be later on?

 

Sure...but it probably won't be as reliable as the original which is the point the other gentlemen was trying to make. I too have read a lot of horror stories about resleeved gen-III blocks.

 

I've heard some crazy things about the sleeves dropping too. Good thing hearing that ARE sets their sleeves on a kind-a shelf at the bottom of the sleeve that is grooved into the block, somehow, impossible for them to move. Just gotta use a good builder

So, there are factory sleeves in the LS7 block, right? And all the LSx based engines, right? I know....newbie question

 

Factory does a better job than the majority of builders...probably because they have super expensive machines and can't afford to have cars coming back because of a sleeving issue...I've seen problems with even the supposedly 'best' builders out there but I'm not going to drop names.

And you must be talking about a different ARE than the one I know from Toronto...and if you aren't...well...

 

I know ARE has had their problems, every shop does, but I got a perfect engine from them twice. This one is badass, smooth, quiet and strong like the first day I drove it. Almost 2 years now.

Watch it blow up tomorrow now

 

On a factory Ls1/2/6 block, the sleeves, which have ridges up
their sides to prevent up/down movement within the block, are integrally cast
(i.e. placed in the mold, and the aluminum poured around them) leaving
about 0.2 inch (a guess, I don't know the exact numbers) of aluminum around the sleeve itself...

When the block is resleeved, the original sleeve and the ridges
are bored out...this leaves you with aluminum bores about 0.1
inch thick...roughly half the original thickness....then the new
larger bore sleeves are pressed in...There are hundreds of things
that can go wrong during the removal/installation process by themselves...
NOBODY can restore that original bore thickness...they can try to restore the block structural integrity, via systems like the modular integrated deck/etc, but "good luck" is the short story. This is very likely WHY you have a blown
head gasket now, your much weakened block PROBABLY warped when you overheated it.

An LS7 or C5R block does have pressed sleeves, but the block is designed and
engineered to "fit around them" i.e. it still has the factory 0.2 inch of
aluminum around the bore, providing proper strength and integrity..
No, it doesn't have forged pistons so you can spray or blow it, but its pistons will have no problem surviving naturally aspirated. Its designed to go for 150K miles, and meets the same durability requirements as any factory engine.

The cost of putting forged pistons in it is NOTHING compared to the scope
of a project that can really utilize the 1000 HP + you'd easily make
with a proper forced induction setup...