I had to say something......
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,649
Likes: 1
From: Mont Belvieu, TX
I had to say something......
! Independent testing conducted with Vengeance Racing proved the new GenX Street/Strip 235 heads deliver the goods. Their pump gas, 440 c.i.d. LSX car with a mild hydraulic roller cam and our 235 heads made over 625 rear wheel horsepower. Other Trick Flow customers have experienced the same results.
C'mon, since when is
Actually, the camshaft is quite large. We just dont believe in big lift for big #s... Duration is in the 260s cam
Not argueing that the car made the power or anything like that, but MILD??
I don't think so
Last edited by Stang's Bane; Apr 15, 2008 at 09:45 AM.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,251
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From: Tuscaloosa, AL.
Did this really warrant a seperate thread in the internal engine section. Really get tired of all the hate towards vengence. The guys do good work. Whether or not you believe that there cars make the power they claim is up to you. If you don't, then don't use their services. Occassionally, you can challange their results IN A THREAD that they (or their customer)
1) starts
2) boasts some new numbers
Come on man, get a life and stop attempting to nit pick at our sponsers. They are the reason why we have this great resource. JUST MY .02!
1) starts
2) boasts some new numbers
Come on man, get a life and stop attempting to nit pick at our sponsers. They are the reason why we have this great resource. JUST MY .02!
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,649
Likes: 1
From: Mont Belvieu, TX
Did this really warrant a seperate thread in the internal engine section. Really get tired of all the hate towards vengence. The guys do good work. Whether or not you believe that there cars make the power they claim is up to you. If you don't, then don't use their services. Occassionally, you can challange their results IN A THREAD that they (or their customer)
1) starts
2) boasts some new numbers
Come on man, get a life and stop attempting to nit pick at our sponsers. They are the reason why we have this great resource. JUST MY .02!
1) starts
2) boasts some new numbers
Come on man, get a life and stop attempting to nit pick at our sponsers. They are the reason why we have this great resource. JUST MY .02!
I never challenged the numbers as a matter of fact I think I said that in my first post.
My problem has nothing to do with VRD, it has to do with the wording in TRICKFLOW's add. Wording like that will have people believing that this combo would idle like a kitten and be perfect for a DD and make the 625.
I just wanted to get a little truth in advertising, that is all. What we have here is a direct contradiction in what Vengeance said and what TFS said.
On The Tree
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
From: New Orleans
I run an LSX454 with over 600RWHP and 570RWTQ with the TrickFlow 235 heads. The cam is 253/259 duration, idles at 1,000 RPM and can be driven as a daily driver if fuel mileage wasn't an issue. However it will get 17+ at interstate speeds.
So I have to disagree with the idea it can't be done. The out of the box TrickFlows were installed here in Houston.
So I have to disagree with the idea it can't be done. The out of the box TrickFlows were installed here in Houston.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,649
Likes: 1
From: Mont Belvieu, TX
I run an LSX454 with over 600RWHP and 570RWTQ with the TrickFlow 235 heads. The cam is 253/259 duration, idles at 1,000 RPM and can be driven as a daily driver if fuel mileage wasn't an issue. However it will get 17+ at interstate speeds.
So I have to disagree with the idea it can't be done. The out of the box TrickFlows were installed here in Houston.
So I have to disagree with the idea it can't be done. The out of the box TrickFlows were installed here in Houston.
I digress though, that is not my point. The point is that a cam of that size is not a mild cam. It is a large cam for a street driven vehicle. I didn't say that the heads could not make the power. There are plenty of dyno sheets to back up the claims.
Launching!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 262
Likes: 6
From: Nebraska
i agree that it appears that TF is trying to make 625hp look average/easy by saying the cam is mild. but, terms like mild and aggressive, when refering to cams, need to be qualified by their final use, ie. dd, street, strip, or track. and u (stang's bane) did that in ur last post "It is a large cam for a street driven vehicle." TF did not!
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On The Tree
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
From: New Orleans
The cam you pulled out of your car was roughly the same size as the one in question, would you have liked to DD it? The cam you have now is roughly 10 deg. smaller, that is a significant difference..
I digress though, that is not my point. The point is that a cam of that size is not a mild cam. It is a large cam for a street driven vehicle. I didn't say that the heads could not make the power. There are plenty of dyno sheets to back up the claims.
I digress though, that is not my point. The point is that a cam of that size is not a mild cam. It is a large cam for a street driven vehicle. I didn't say that the heads could not make the power. There are plenty of dyno sheets to back up the claims.
But you would be right about duration above .260 because with the .266 cam I could not leave the car in any gear (6-speed) between 2-3,000 rpm without serious bucking issues. The smaller .253/.259 cam cured that while still cranking out almost identical power.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,649
Likes: 1
From: Mont Belvieu, TX
OK, I would agree the cam with 266 duration was too steep. I thought you were also implying you couldn't get there with the TF's as well. My bad.
But you would be right about duration above .260 because with the .266 cam I could not leave the car in any gear (6-speed) between 2-3,000 rpm without serious bucking issues. The smaller .253/.259 cam cured that while still cranking out almost identical power.
But you would be right about duration above .260 because with the .266 cam I could not leave the car in any gear (6-speed) between 2-3,000 rpm without serious bucking issues. The smaller .253/.259 cam cured that while still cranking out almost identical power.
BTW love your car, I plan on being in the Katy area next Friday night and should have my car with me and would love to take a look at yours!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,649
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From: Mont Belvieu, TX
Mild is a relative term. I have this cam, and it works with my stock 3.42 gears. With 3.73 gears and unlimited funds I would drive this car daily excluding rain. My last two strokers had less cubes and smaller cams, but similar idle and drivability charicteristics, one actualy idled a bit worse. I wouldn't describe it as mild, but I know people willing to tolerate a good bit more in a car than I will.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,649
Likes: 1
From: Mont Belvieu, TX
Mild is a relative term. I have this cam, and it works with my stock 3.42 gears. With 3.73 gears and unlimited funds I would drive this car daily excluding rain. My last two strokers had less cubes and smaller cams, but similar idle and drivability charicteristics, one actualy idled a bit worse. I wouldn't describe it as mild, but I know people willing to tolerate a good bit more in a car than I will.
Oh hell I have done forgot what my point is
On The Tree
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
From: New Orleans
We could probably hook up for awhile at some point. I should be in the area next Friday. Where and when?
Guys the term "mild" is open to interpretation. One mans "mild" may be radical to the next.
FWIW, We built 3 of these 440s using this same cam. Duration is big, BUT the LOBES are NOT aggressive, they are VERY mild lobes, and lift is UNDER .600..... Does mild and daily driven mean the same thing? Not to me...
MY definition of mild means the camshaft is not beating the **** out of the valves/seats/springs etc etc.
In the end, its all in the tuning.... I dont think I have seen any 600rwhp NA street cars run any better than the 440s we have built in the past year.
On a final note, rest assured there is NOTHING easy about making 600rwhp on pump gas thru cars
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FWIW, We built 3 of these 440s using this same cam. Duration is big, BUT the LOBES are NOT aggressive, they are VERY mild lobes, and lift is UNDER .600..... Does mild and daily driven mean the same thing? Not to me...
MY definition of mild means the camshaft is not beating the **** out of the valves/seats/springs etc etc.
In the end, its all in the tuning.... I dont think I have seen any 600rwhp NA street cars run any better than the 440s we have built in the past year.
On a final note, rest assured there is NOTHING easy about making 600rwhp on pump gas thru cars
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,649
Likes: 1
From: Mont Belvieu, TX
Guys the term "mild" is open to interpretation. One mans "mild" may be radical to the next.
FWIW, We built 3 of these 440s using this same cam. Duration is big, BUT the LOBES are NOT aggressive, they are VERY mild lobes, and lift is UNDER .600..... Does mild and daily driven mean the same thing? Not to me...
MY definition of mild means the camshaft is not beating the **** out of the valves/seats/springs etc etc.
In the end, its all in the tuning.... I dont think I have seen any 600rwhp NA street cars run any better than the 440s we have built in the past year.
On a final note, rest assured there is NOTHING easy about making 600rwhp on pump gas thru cars !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FWIW, We built 3 of these 440s using this same cam. Duration is big, BUT the LOBES are NOT aggressive, they are VERY mild lobes, and lift is UNDER .600..... Does mild and daily driven mean the same thing? Not to me...
MY definition of mild means the camshaft is not beating the **** out of the valves/seats/springs etc etc.
In the end, its all in the tuning.... I dont think I have seen any 600rwhp NA street cars run any better than the 440s we have built in the past year.
On a final note, rest assured there is NOTHING easy about making 600rwhp on pump gas thru cars
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Beleive me I know it is not easy to make the magic 600 number in a pump gas street car. The way that it was worded in the add though makes it seem that way though.
In the end it is just advertising, and like WKMCD said, it is all about the marketing.
I would rather have a 262/270 .596/.596 113 LSA with VERY soft lobes/ramps than I would a 232/240 .647/.647 110 LSK/XER lobed camshaft any day of the week.
THATS what Im saying by mild.... Again.. "MY definition of mild means the camshaft is not beating the **** out of the valves/seats/springs etc etc."
THATS what Im saying by mild.... Again.. "MY definition of mild means the camshaft is not beating the **** out of the valves/seats/springs etc etc."