What are ls4 front drives classified as?
On The Tree
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
From: Anderson, SC
From musclecarclub.com....
Strict Definition of a Muscle Car:
A muscle car, by the strictest definition, is an intermediate sized, performance oriented model, powered by a large V8 engine, at an affordable price. Most of these models were based on "regular" production vehicles. These vehicles are generally not considered muscle cars, even when equipped with large V8s. If there was a high performance version available, it gets the credit, and not the vehicle that it was based on.
Examples: Buick GS, Chevrolete Chevelle SS, Dodge Charger R/T, Ford Torino/Cobra, Plymouth GTX, Plymouth Road Runner, Oldsmobile 442, Pontiac GTO
Personal Luxury Cars and Luxury Cars:
Although there were several personal luxury vehicles with performance engines and options, their heavy weight and high sticker prices went against the low cost performance definition of muscle cars. Therefore, they are not considered muscle cars.
Examples: Buick Riviera, Chrysler 300 Letter Cars, Pontiac Grand Prix, etc.
Based on those definitions, we have bad *** personal luxury cars. But then again, those definitions are geared towards older models, so the argument could be made for calling our cars "modern muscle".
Strict Definition of a Muscle Car:
A muscle car, by the strictest definition, is an intermediate sized, performance oriented model, powered by a large V8 engine, at an affordable price. Most of these models were based on "regular" production vehicles. These vehicles are generally not considered muscle cars, even when equipped with large V8s. If there was a high performance version available, it gets the credit, and not the vehicle that it was based on.
Examples: Buick GS, Chevrolete Chevelle SS, Dodge Charger R/T, Ford Torino/Cobra, Plymouth GTX, Plymouth Road Runner, Oldsmobile 442, Pontiac GTO
Personal Luxury Cars and Luxury Cars:
Although there were several personal luxury vehicles with performance engines and options, their heavy weight and high sticker prices went against the low cost performance definition of muscle cars. Therefore, they are not considered muscle cars.
Examples: Buick Riviera, Chrysler 300 Letter Cars, Pontiac Grand Prix, etc.
Based on those definitions, we have bad *** personal luxury cars. But then again, those definitions are geared towards older models, so the argument could be made for calling our cars "modern muscle".
We have the most H.P of any Monte Carlo of any except the 454 in 1970
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Monte_Carlo
If you read the history GM in 1971 they started listing the engine in Gross and SAE hp rating if you look at the SAE rating from 71 and 2006/07 we have more HP than any Monte Carlo SS in history except the 1970 454 Monte so we are Muscle Cars except FWD
1971
Engine Carburetor Gross HP SAE HP
Turbo-Fire 350 CID V8 2-bbl 245 hp 165 hp
Turbo-Fire 350 CID V8 4-bbl 270 hp 175 hp
Turbo-Jet 400 CID V8 4-bbl 300 hp 260 hp
Turbo-Jet 454 CID V8 4-bbl 365 hp 285 hp
Model Years Engine Power Torque
LS 2000–2005 3.4 L LA1 V6 180 hp (134 kW) 205 ft·lbf (278 N·m)
SS 2000–2005 3.8 L L36 V6 200 hp (149 kW) 225 ft·lbf (305 N·m)
LT 2005 3.8 L L36 V6 200 hp (149 kW) 225 ft·lbf (305 N·m)
SS Supercharged 2004–2005 3.8 L L67 supercharged V6 240 hp (179 kW) 280 ft·lbf (380 N·m)
LS-LT 2006–2007 3.5 L LZE V6 211 hp SAE (157 kW) 214 ft·lb (290 N·m)
LT-LTZ 2006 only
3.9 L LZ9 V6 (2006 only) 240 hp SAE (179 kW) 245 ft·lb (332 N·m)
SS 2006-2007
5.3 L LS4 V8 303 hp SAE (226 kW) 325 ft·lb (438 N·m)
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
The Impala SS Monte Carlo SS buick Super and the Grand Prix GXP all follow in the line of the past 60's and 70's muscle car era with the names of thier older counterparts. So there is lineage there for calling them Muscle Cars.
The formula is there also. Taking a mundane car and throwing in the largest powerplant that would fit at nor will it cost way too much more. This being the V8's (and to some degree I would say the supercharged V6's too could be considered) But mostly a V8.
The idea of 4 doors or two..well the other cars that fall under this are the Charger and the Magnum and to a degree the 300's. All these cars except the MC. are 4 door sedans that have a Muscle Car past.
But because they are RWD and we are not they are "muscle cars"?
The FWD LS based cares are modern muscle cars. They invoke what the spirit of the past gives credit to what we all consider a muscle car. No matter the drive wheels or doors.
The formula is there also. Taking a mundane car and throwing in the largest powerplant that would fit at nor will it cost way too much more. This being the V8's (and to some degree I would say the supercharged V6's too could be considered) But mostly a V8.
The idea of 4 doors or two..well the other cars that fall under this are the Charger and the Magnum and to a degree the 300's. All these cars except the MC. are 4 door sedans that have a Muscle Car past.
But because they are RWD and we are not they are "muscle cars"?
The FWD LS based cares are modern muscle cars. They invoke what the spirit of the past gives credit to what we all consider a muscle car. No matter the drive wheels or doors.
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
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TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
From: Hudson River Valley, NY
From musclecarclub.com....
Strict Definition of a Muscle Car:
A muscle car, by the strictest definition, is an intermediate sized, performance oriented model, powered by a large V8 engine, at an affordable price. Most of these models were based on "regular" production vehicles. These vehicles are generally not considered muscle cars, even when equipped with large V8s. If there was a high performance version available, it gets the credit, and not the vehicle that it was based on.
Examples: Buick GS, Chevrolete Chevelle SS, Dodge Charger R/T, Ford Torino/Cobra, Plymouth GTX, Plymouth Road Runner, Oldsmobile 442, Pontiac GTO
Personal Luxury Cars and Luxury Cars:
Although there were several personal luxury vehicles with performance engines and options, their heavy weight and high sticker prices went against the low cost performance definition of muscle cars. Therefore, they are not considered muscle cars.
Examples: Buick Riviera, Chrysler 300 Letter Cars, Pontiac Grand Prix, etc.
Based on those definitions, we have bad *** personal luxury cars. But then again, those definitions are geared towards older models, so the argument could be made for calling our cars "modern muscle".
Strict Definition of a Muscle Car:
A muscle car, by the strictest definition, is an intermediate sized, performance oriented model, powered by a large V8 engine, at an affordable price. Most of these models were based on "regular" production vehicles. These vehicles are generally not considered muscle cars, even when equipped with large V8s. If there was a high performance version available, it gets the credit, and not the vehicle that it was based on.
Examples: Buick GS, Chevrolete Chevelle SS, Dodge Charger R/T, Ford Torino/Cobra, Plymouth GTX, Plymouth Road Runner, Oldsmobile 442, Pontiac GTO
Personal Luxury Cars and Luxury Cars:
Although there were several personal luxury vehicles with performance engines and options, their heavy weight and high sticker prices went against the low cost performance definition of muscle cars. Therefore, they are not considered muscle cars.
Examples: Buick Riviera, Chrysler 300 Letter Cars, Pontiac Grand Prix, etc.
Based on those definitions, we have bad *** personal luxury cars. But then again, those definitions are geared towards older models, so the argument could be made for calling our cars "modern muscle".
I agree But I will also say
Monte Carlo '95-'07= Personal Luxury Aero Coupe.
From musclecarclub.com....
Strict Definition of a Muscle Car:
A muscle car, by the strictest definition, is an intermediate sized, performance oriented model, powered by a large V8 engine, at an affordable price. Most of these models were based on "regular" production vehicles. These vehicles are generally not considered muscle cars, even when equipped with large V8s. If there was a high performance version available, it gets the credit, and not the vehicle that it was based on.
Examples: Buick GS, Chevrolete Chevelle SS, Dodge Charger R/T, Ford Torino/Cobra, Plymouth GTX, Plymouth Road Runner, Oldsmobile 442, Pontiac GTO
Personal Luxury Cars and Luxury Cars:
Although there were several personal luxury vehicles with performance engines and options, their heavy weight and high sticker prices went against the low cost performance definition of muscle cars. Therefore, they are not considered muscle cars.
Examples: Buick Riviera, Chrysler 300 Letter Cars, Pontiac Grand Prix, etc.
Based on those definitions, we have bad *** personal luxury cars. But then again, those definitions are geared towards older models, so the argument could be made for calling our cars "modern muscle".
Strict Definition of a Muscle Car:
A muscle car, by the strictest definition, is an intermediate sized, performance oriented model, powered by a large V8 engine, at an affordable price. Most of these models were based on "regular" production vehicles. These vehicles are generally not considered muscle cars, even when equipped with large V8s. If there was a high performance version available, it gets the credit, and not the vehicle that it was based on.
Examples: Buick GS, Chevrolete Chevelle SS, Dodge Charger R/T, Ford Torino/Cobra, Plymouth GTX, Plymouth Road Runner, Oldsmobile 442, Pontiac GTO
Personal Luxury Cars and Luxury Cars:
Although there were several personal luxury vehicles with performance engines and options, their heavy weight and high sticker prices went against the low cost performance definition of muscle cars. Therefore, they are not considered muscle cars.
Examples: Buick Riviera, Chrysler 300 Letter Cars, Pontiac Grand Prix, etc.
Based on those definitions, we have bad *** personal luxury cars. But then again, those definitions are geared towards older models, so the argument could be made for calling our cars "modern muscle".
Last edited by Pauls325; Jan 25, 2010 at 10:59 AM.
And the 2006 5.3 or 325 ci Monte Carlo SS has 303 HP
you decide
these is no doubt these cars walk a line as far as classification goes. From my experience (especially being bold enough to use a muscle car icon on the hood of mine) the muscle car guys frown on it because it is front drive... the ricer guys frown on it because it is american and not forced induction. Im past trying to please these guys (i call them purists) who cant handle change and are all caught up in the nostalgia these are the same guys that have helped keep gm down by resisting change to a more modern market. i strongly believe these cars will be sought after in years to come and untill then ill be changing the muscle and ricer guys minds one at a time when they find themselves watching my tailights dissappear in the distance.
plus
this is the fastest grand prix to come out of the factory ever (tied with another 69 i think)
takes snow like a champ even on the summer tires
plus
this is the fastest grand prix to come out of the factory ever (tied with another 69 i think)
takes snow like a champ even on the summer tires
doubtful they explored that option before the ls1 was designed put a pushrod motor and dohc in two identical corvettes and had blind test drives with the higher up people in gm. pushrod won favor due to the fact it does not have to wind up so much the power is right there after the tests they designed the first ls1's
doubtful they explored that option before the ls1 was designed put a pushrod motor and dohc in two identical corvettes and had blind test drives with the higher up people in gm. pushrod won favor due to the fact it does not have to wind up so much the power is right there after the tests they designed the first ls1's
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: Cleveland
Agreed...to me its a comfortable, every day car with a little more performace than the average mid-size sedan. I bought this car because it was much more comfortable on my 70 mile per day commute than my old truck was. I have yet to mod it at all, and probably never will....That's what the Camaro in the garage is for.
To those of you that have taken these engines to their true potential, I applaud you...I've seen some amazing LS4's on here...
But if it was a true muscle car, we wouldn't have to mod them to get the most performance possible....the manufacturer and dealer would have done that for us.
TECH Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
From: Farmington Hills, MI
I would say probably not, and with Ford coming out with a pushrod V8 for their trucks you can see there's more to the story than just DOHC > OHV for flow. The LSx's are smaller and lighter than the Ford modular motors (seriously, those are some giant heads on pea shooter bores). Pushrod motors may not win the HP/ci war, but they do really well in the HP/lbs and HP/space used comparisons. For heavy vehicles, they actually do really well in HP/mpg comparisons too (see V8 Silverado vs. V6/V8 Tundra or V8 F150,then compare MPGs and Power, ignoring displacement). With only 1 valve per cylinder there are some peak flow limitations (especially on the intake side), but the combustion chambers in the LS engines are world class. The DOHC V6 in the Camaro and CTS is hot, but that's also direct injection. I think that a DOD/AFM, VVT, SIDI (spark ignition direct injection) pushrod V8 would match up well with a turbocharged DOHC SIDI V6 (ie ecoboost) for power and fuel economy, and would probably cost a lot less to build.
Agreed...to me its a comfortable, every day car with a little more performace than the average mid-size sedan. I bought this car because it was much more comfortable on my 70 mile per day commute than my old truck was. I have yet to mod it at all, and probably never will....That's what the Camaro in the garage is for.
To those of you that have taken these engines to their true potential, I applaud you...I've seen some amazing LS4's on here...
But if it was a true muscle car, we wouldn't have to mod them to get the most performance possible....the manufacturer and dealer would have done that for us.
To those of you that have taken these engines to their true potential, I applaud you...I've seen some amazing LS4's on here...
But if it was a true muscle car, we wouldn't have to mod them to get the most performance possible....the manufacturer and dealer would have done that for us.
Do you remember this commercial they have only 2 hp more than us and they say the muscle car lives http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3Qzx...eature=related listen to all the hype we should not hold our heads low but high
Modern Muscle !!!
Modern Muscle !!!