Ever see a Throw Out Bearing do this?
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,668
Likes: 5
From: Central Kentucky
And your point is......................
Years ago when all this went down, I saw a brand new $800 GM clutch at the dealer with Chinese PP, TOB and NON Valeo disk. Bottome line is, then and much more so now, everthing clutch related for LT1 is cheap Chinese junk. This means you use what you can, mod it if you can, and hope for the best.
I am confident that if I had ordered a GM TOB alone at the time, it would have been Chinese too.
When I got my recent Competition Clutch stage 2 set, it had a NON Valeo marked PP and dinky looking round top TOB. All of that minus the disk is likely Chinese and I have no choice but to accept it.
Again back when this happened, AZ swapped the square TOB out under warranty and I modded it by spot welding the hat as seen in the pics in this thread and to this day, I am still using it with great success. The other brand new round TOBs I have had, I have spot welded and sold on the board and have heard no complaints.
Years ago when all this went down, I saw a brand new $800 GM clutch at the dealer with Chinese PP, TOB and NON Valeo disk. Bottome line is, then and much more so now, everthing clutch related for LT1 is cheap Chinese junk. This means you use what you can, mod it if you can, and hope for the best.
I am confident that if I had ordered a GM TOB alone at the time, it would have been Chinese too.
When I got my recent Competition Clutch stage 2 set, it had a NON Valeo marked PP and dinky looking round top TOB. All of that minus the disk is likely Chinese and I have no choice but to accept it.
Again back when this happened, AZ swapped the square TOB out under warranty and I modded it by spot welding the hat as seen in the pics in this thread and to this day, I am still using it with great success. The other brand new round TOBs I have had, I have spot welded and sold on the board and have heard no complaints.
Well, I looked it up, I can see why none of the aftermarket stuff uses the ACDelco bearings (part number CT1080), as they are like $200 list, around $150 online...
National makes a OEM replacement that is identical (probably the exact same part) for around the same price ($150)...
All the other "clutch release bearings" are like $20-45 or so... big difference in price...
Hell, I know most of the aftermarket release bearings don't have the big detents, but all we really need is someone to make an aftermarket clutch fork with less space between the prongs so that it "catches" on the inner part to keep the bearing from turning freely...
Hell, if I would have known this I would have just welded material onto the fork prongs myself to achieve the same result. I sure as hell don't want to rip into either of my cars to accomplish it tho...
National makes a OEM replacement that is identical (probably the exact same part) for around the same price ($150)...
All the other "clutch release bearings" are like $20-45 or so... big difference in price...
Hell, I know most of the aftermarket release bearings don't have the big detents, but all we really need is someone to make an aftermarket clutch fork with less space between the prongs so that it "catches" on the inner part to keep the bearing from turning freely...
Hell, if I would have known this I would have just welded material onto the fork prongs myself to achieve the same result. I sure as hell don't want to rip into either of my cars to accomplish it tho...
Well everyone in the biz knows that AUTOZONE sells sub standard parts that are passed down and rejected from the good stores.
You just screwed yourself by welding the new TOB since now its not under life time warrenty. I have seen where some have said all TOB are from China, that does not make them all equal by any means.
Your issue came from driving the car hard on a part that is not up to GM specs and wore out much faster than a factory replacement from GM would have, thats the price you pay when you go to the cheap auto parts stores and put cheap parts in your car.
As for the Spec 3 bearings going out im sure you did not break the clutch in correctly and you were banging gears or possible installed it incorrectly, 100miles and it fails is an installment/breakin issue. And your motor blowing in 500miles sounds like you need a GOOD tech and machine shop.
You just screwed yourself by welding the new TOB since now its not under life time warrenty. I have seen where some have said all TOB are from China, that does not make them all equal by any means.
Your issue came from driving the car hard on a part that is not up to GM specs and wore out much faster than a factory replacement from GM would have, thats the price you pay when you go to the cheap auto parts stores and put cheap parts in your car.
As for the Spec 3 bearings going out im sure you did not break the clutch in correctly and you were banging gears or possible installed it incorrectly, 100miles and it fails is an installment/breakin issue. And your motor blowing in 500miles sounds like you need a GOOD tech and machine shop.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,668
Likes: 5
From: Central Kentucky
Well everyone in the biz knows that AUTOZONE sells sub standard parts that are passed down and rejected from the good stores.
You just screwed yourself by welding the new TOB since now its not under life time warrenty. I have seen where some have said all TOB are from China, that does not make them all equal by any means.
Your issue came from driving the car hard on a part that is not up to GM specs and wore out much faster than a factory replacement from GM would have, thats the price you pay when you go to the cheap auto parts stores and put cheap parts in your car.
As for the Spec 3 bearings going out im sure you did not break the clutch in correctly and you were banging gears or possible installed it incorrectly, 100miles and it fails is an installment/breakin issue. And your motor blowing in 500miles sounds like you need a GOOD tech and machine shop.
You just screwed yourself by welding the new TOB since now its not under life time warrenty. I have seen where some have said all TOB are from China, that does not make them all equal by any means.
Your issue came from driving the car hard on a part that is not up to GM specs and wore out much faster than a factory replacement from GM would have, thats the price you pay when you go to the cheap auto parts stores and put cheap parts in your car.
As for the Spec 3 bearings going out im sure you did not break the clutch in correctly and you were banging gears or possible installed it incorrectly, 100miles and it fails is an installment/breakin issue. And your motor blowing in 500miles sounds like you need a GOOD tech and machine shop.
Agreed AZ is substandard.
Oh really??? Do you really think AZ gives a **** and would even notice the spot welds to begin with. I guarantee they will swap it out again no questions asked. To prove this point, the last pressure plate I got (before the CC clutch) I drilled it to lighten it and they swapped that entire clutch out no questions asked.
Until someone can provide information on what Chinese made throw out bearings are better than other Chinese bearings, which I am confident has not been done on this board as of yet, they are all higher risk (compared to old GM) and one bearing is no different than another. If you are able to back up your statement that all are not equal, I challenge you to post you information with quantifiable results right now in this thread.
I saw the same clutch with bearings marked China at the Chevy dealer, Napa, Carquest both of which are considered better parts houses. I saw the same stuff at other lesser parts houses as well. So does that mean one is truly better? Again from what I have seen and/or read on the board, all of the aftermarket bearings are Chinese and in the end, its a crap shoot.
Bottom line is the welds will likely ensure the current TB goes the distance.
^^^^ My experience looking for quality LT1 clutch parts matches wrd1972's exactly. All the parts except the disc appear to be made in the same chinese factory, GM stuff included.
what i beleive he is saying is that the parts the AZ gets are the same parts(made in china) they have just passed less of the quality control test then the others. If this is true i have no idea nor do i care. If it breaks it breaks. It takes me about 45 minutes to pull my t56.
Mine has the teardrop shape, so does the new one McLeod is sending me - Valeo parts that they buy and relabel. My issue nay have been due to excessive stroke on the adjustable master cylinder
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,668
Likes: 5
From: Central Kentucky
This logic can not be applied to the TOB IMO. I can take a GM bearing and a Chinese bearing (remove made in China from the surface), mix them up and you would not be able to tell one from another. The materials of the two are likely the same but the manufacturing process is likely much different. IMO, on the crappy bearings, when the cylinder is rolled over to capture the hat, the roll is really more of a crimp and the cylinder wall thickness is reduced due to stretching and this causes the weak point. The tack welds lessen the stress exerted on the roll over and make the part stronger.
I stand on the statement that one Chinese bearing can not be determined to be better than another Chinese bearing in the same way other parts can. I also believe that all of these aftermarket clutch companies as well as GM, will get the the cheapest Chinese **** they can get their hands on considering the car it will be used on has been out of production for nearly 14 years. It just reality and it sucks. Regardless, this is all good discussion.
I bought a OEM GM bearing .
Inside the box it was a "Made In China" bearing.
So yes you are right OEM GM "TO" bearing are Made in China...
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,668
Likes: 5
From: Central Kentucky
^
How much did it cost?
BTW, here is a really good deal on a Corvette square top TOB. Yes its likely Chinese ****, but it is a square top and the price is more reasonable at $95.00
http://www.ecklerscorvette.com/corve...1994-1996.html
How much did it cost?
BTW, here is a really good deal on a Corvette square top TOB. Yes its likely Chinese ****, but it is a square top and the price is more reasonable at $95.00
http://www.ecklerscorvette.com/corve...1994-1996.html
mpcv2000, do you by chance have a side-picture of the throwout bearing showing the teardrop shape?
Also, there *IS* a big difference in Chinese parts... Both National and Timken both list a cross-reference to the GM part, and if either say China on them I would take it that they have as of high a quality part as any Timken or National bearing.
Just because it says China doesn't mean anything. You can have Chinese manufactured parts be just as good as parts made in the USA, just like you can get parts made in the USA that suck compared to similar parts made in China.
Also, with the three or four different designs seen in this thread alone, I HIGHLY DOUBT they all have the same construction or internals.
My point about all this is, I want to know which ones don't make the "marbles in the can" sound once they are installed. THAT is the one I want to install in my cars.
Also, there *IS* a big difference in Chinese parts... Both National and Timken both list a cross-reference to the GM part, and if either say China on them I would take it that they have as of high a quality part as any Timken or National bearing.
Just because it says China doesn't mean anything. You can have Chinese manufactured parts be just as good as parts made in the USA, just like you can get parts made in the USA that suck compared to similar parts made in China.
Also, with the three or four different designs seen in this thread alone, I HIGHLY DOUBT they all have the same construction or internals.
My point about all this is, I want to know which ones don't make the "marbles in the can" sound once they are installed. THAT is the one I want to install in my cars.
^^^^^
I am done with buying anything of importance from any Autozone or Pep boys's. There like the Walmart for cars. Ive had a Autozone bearing fail on me too, not my camaro but my saturn. Also had a clutch master cylinder fail on me from them after 8 months. Funny thing is the factory saturn one lasted 18yrs. When that one went it slowed bleed off pressure and I was able to drive it home, the autozone one just puked and died on me
I am done with buying anything of importance from any Autozone or Pep boys's. There like the Walmart for cars. Ive had a Autozone bearing fail on me too, not my camaro but my saturn. Also had a clutch master cylinder fail on me from them after 8 months. Funny thing is the factory saturn one lasted 18yrs. When that one went it slowed bleed off pressure and I was able to drive it home, the autozone one just puked and died on me Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,668
Likes: 5
From: Central Kentucky
As a general rule, yes I agree with you. I am still running the second welded square top TOB from AZ on my current CC clutch. It has worked fine and is dead silent and I am hoping it will go the distance. Time will tell.
I understand what he is trying to say, This logic can be applied to other things such as brake rotors for example. Nearly all break rotors are made in China too but if you look at a AZ rotor and then compare it to a Napa rotor, you can clearly make out the difference in quality. If you look at the vanes between the friction surfaces, you will clearly see what I mean. You can also determine less run out on the better rotor. One can simply expect better results from the napa rotor. This is what I mean by quantifiable results. I am not trying to be combative, just calling it like I see it.
This logic can not be applied to the TOB IMO. I can take a GM bearing and a Chinese bearing (remove made in China from the surface), mix them up and you would not be able to tell one from another. The materials of the two are likely the same but the manufacturing process is likely much different. IMO, on the crappy bearings, when the cylinder is rolled over to capture the hat, the roll is really more of a crimp and the cylinder wall thickness is reduced due to stretching and this causes the weak point. The tack welds lessen the stress exerted on the roll over and make the part stronger.
I stand on the statement that one Chinese bearing can not be determined to be better than another Chinese bearing in the same way other parts can. I also believe that all of these aftermarket clutch companies as well as GM, will get the the cheapest Chinese **** they can get their hands on considering the car it will be used on has been out of production for nearly 14 years. It just reality and it sucks. Regardless, this is all good discussion.
This logic can not be applied to the TOB IMO. I can take a GM bearing and a Chinese bearing (remove made in China from the surface), mix them up and you would not be able to tell one from another. The materials of the two are likely the same but the manufacturing process is likely much different. IMO, on the crappy bearings, when the cylinder is rolled over to capture the hat, the roll is really more of a crimp and the cylinder wall thickness is reduced due to stretching and this causes the weak point. The tack welds lessen the stress exerted on the roll over and make the part stronger.
I stand on the statement that one Chinese bearing can not be determined to be better than another Chinese bearing in the same way other parts can. I also believe that all of these aftermarket clutch companies as well as GM, will get the the cheapest Chinese **** they can get their hands on considering the car it will be used on has been out of production for nearly 14 years. It just reality and it sucks. Regardless, this is all good discussion.
The parts go through inspection and spec test if they pass they go to the dealer and such, if they dont pass they get thrown into a batch Bin. there are a few diffrent ones, some are so fucked they get melted and re made, some are just good enough. The perfect units are sold for top dollar, the others are sold off to lower end parts stores for cheaper "Autozone, Discount" ect. They sell them for cheaper because they bought them for much cheaper than a perfectly spect Part. They all came from the same place but there not all the same part..... There is even a chance of getting a poor one from a better place because quality control is impossible to be perfect. but your chances are less likely. I have seen all of this for many years in the dealership and going to Autozone for side jobs because the customer can not afford the price of a dealer part. I would never suggest an electronic part form a shitty autoparts store either