Yup sad sad sad to see. Dart finally sent my block and front cover back to me that was being used for the development of this. I guess I didn't want to believe it but after it was shipped back it was like it was really dead. After all the hard ground work that was done by Jerry Clayton to get it to the point of Dart making the annoucement and me donating the parts after we had talked for so long of this being done, I really now have a big chip on my shoulder for Dart. Shame on them for giving the green light and making the announcement it would be made and then backing out. Sorry guys. It was out of our hands.

 

Hey don't go knocking the 409's now. 1961 when they came out was the first SS. Their engine family (348/409) were first big blocks. They are still pretty awesome engines.

 

The price isn't that bad at all. Considering all of your parts would swap over; oil system, opti, intake manifold, headers, front accessories, steering rack, etc... You could have a really nice large displacement LT1 versus maybe a cam only LS1. That large displacement LT1 would be a much better foundation to build off of if you ever swapped the heads, intake, etc.. than a stock bottom ended LS1.

 

All costs considered, why would you elect to handicap your build with 23* heads? The "foundation" of the LS architecture is just as capable.

 

This is what pissed me off the most. You should have all the market research crap done BEFORE committing to the public. The way they went about backing out after committing to the public hurt their credibilty. Now, just like some have stated in this thread, there are people who refuse to spend money with them.

 

the ls alredy has the big ci capabilities. with the 6.0 iron blocks. and more importantly the readily available heads and intakes to feed them.
ls is not limited to any type of intakes or heads for serious hp.
i dont think dart has even ever made a lt head. but a few ls dart versions exist.

 

Dart does make an lt head. The Dart Pro 1 head I believe. If my memory serves me correctly, AI is working on offering a CNC port job for these heads too.

This really disappoints me, I was looking forward to building a big cube lt1.

 

hasnt the lt1 stock block not even been tested for max hp wise..i know no 4.125 bore sucks for you guys but from my understanding is these stock blocks have made an taken over 1250rwhp..thats a huge amount and around 1350 or 1400hp at the flywheel..

you wont ever see a gen 1 sbc take that with half fill or full fill and splayed main caps..max ove seen was around 900rwhp on boost and then the head bolts started to pull out the block.

After i know what i know about these blocks im thinking of just keeping this thing instead of going to a 6.0 truck block an lsx ****..im very fimilair with 23 degree **** and seeing my class im building for is limited to 88mm max turbo size i know the 23 degree head can support that turbo no problem and the reverse cooling helps the problem with 3/5 an 4/6 head gasket i would think..

 

The 348/409 market potential is huge. And with the Edelbrock heads and 509 inches, the World block will sell and sell good. After all, it is a big block Chevy. Imagine all the old school hot rodders with 58-65 cars who’ve wanted a potent W engine. Imagine the wow factor at car shows.

The LT1 engine is considered a dog by the aftermarket because of lackluster sales and the tremendous numbers done by LS enthusiasts. Dart certainly did the math and realized that other than the more hard core racers, few would buy the block. I believe this determination to be accurate. Dart, as it turns out, is a corporation that needs to turn a profit on their products. They did goof up saying it was green lighted then pulling the plug. They certainly won’t make that mistake again.

I am curious about one thing: What maximum bore could a LT block have if sleeved?

Honestly guys, I went through some pretty interesting experiences with my ‘94. I’ve made the jump to the ‘99 and I for one will say it’s a better platform in pretty much every respect.

 

You could probably build a budget 427ci bottom end LT1 for the same cost of swapping to an LS1 engine, transmission, and wiring. That 427 with horrible parts on it would probably make more power than the LS1 swap. Then, you have a 427ci foundation to build on when you have the money.

There's plenty of SB heads that flow in the range if not more than LSx stuff. They are expensive, but so are the canted valve, large port LSx heads. I bet a 427ci LT1 with SB2.2 heads and a single plane would make some monster numbers. There was one on here in a 39x that made huge numbers. Imagine the extra cubes. You'd be in the range of 650-700+ rwhp on motor.

 

I followed that auction. Wouldn't work for me as I think the cam or main bearing diameter was the larger size. Not good for higher rpm motors. If I can find one with the std diameter I will probably buy it. A good home for my 31 lb billet honda journal crank

Dart. you suck. as mentioned before its sad that you have a huge market here and yet you produce dinosaur age blocks for people with old pos cars destined for the track only.

 

my old sb2.2 n2o motor made 881hp in n2o trim an was 412ci..4.155 bore with a 3.800 stroke..it was single carb cast intake..

You can make 700rwhp with a 23 degree motor n/a but it would not be a pump gas deal and you would have a ton of cash into it.

the sbx and top sbc heads like a splayed valve,canted valve or wedge are all in the same range now..you can expect around 430cfm at .900 lift from all of them..but the new lsx dr heads and curtis of rfd new edelbrock lsr heads look to be new monsters.

 

Remember that the c4 vette guys also have the LTX block. the LS just doesnt fit in the compartment without some serious fabrication and tons of custom parts. There are many posts over in the c4 section on corvetteforum.com and the builds are laughed at as people spend tons of cash just to stick in a stock ls1 probably because they have no money left. If there were kits out there I would no doubt have everything billet lsx with insane heads and be aiming for 700 hp on the motor with a huge bore small stroke 9k rpm lsx.

 

While reading a magazine article on the World W block, I had an idea.

Perhaps World would be more open to doing a LT1 block. Surely with their new W block, they realize that sales will not be huge but there will be some and are offering the product.

AND, they are in competition with Dart. It’ll look good if they make a LT1 block after Dart did all they did and backed out disappointing everybody.

Perhaps they’ll also consider an aluminum version.

I think you guys should all get together and petition World do a LT1 block.

 

[QUOTE=09jyounger;13263701]Dart does make an lt head. The Dart Pro 1 head I believe. If my memory serves me correctly, AI is working on offering a CNC port job for these heads too. QUOTE]

Right. My son's running a pair of Dart Platinum Pro 1s on his 96 LT1 Vette. I'll bet Dart has a CNC porting program too.

Jake

 

Would be cool if world would make an LTX block. I'd get a sticker that had calvin pissing on a Dart logo and put it on every time I hit the track.

Ai Spoke to me about using a better head and modifying it for the ltx block. I considered it but I had already purchased lt4 castings. I was little in the dark about what I would need to have 15/18/21 degree heads work. Then I figured I may as well run a Bowtie block or something better with a much bigger bore but was a little clueless about what I would need to have all my accessories work. Then i figured I could get over those 2 obstacles but probably have a bottleneck with the ltx manifold. I dunno... I kind of wish I did things differently although right now my build is still an all ltx based one and I'm curious how much power we can get out of it.

If and when it blows up my next build will definitely be the best of the best and not an ltx based one. Since I'm running a distributor and a gen 7 dfi I don't need to stay with the ltx. I wonder what I could have made with a 4.125 bore, short stroke, sheet metal intake and 8500 rpms.


Lets all send World a link to this post.

 

Large cam and main bearings not good for high rpm motors? Do WHAT

 

Yea the only reason they run honda or smaller mains is to free up some power. Besides the LS1 have a thicker cam core than an LT1 and I don't think they have a problem with the revs.

 

This is an old thread but I just want to say this:

Dart sucks donkey *****!

/rant

 

I believe one of the reasons why World Products developed the new 409 block was because Bill Mitchell has a HUGE history associated with that motor. It is something very special to him. Those motors are "ok" but they are trumped in a big way by just about every other V-8 design that has combustion chambers in the heads. Do you really think they are going to sell tons of those 409 blocks? Hell no they won't.