i dony see any numbers on the mufflers but my cat has D280-72. & yeah the cop was being an *** he followed me for about a mile before he pulled me over.

 

If the intent of the inspection is in suspect of a criminal violation, as such an inspection is, he needs a warrant to do so. Just as he can't search your car for anything illegal inside without either your permission or a warrant, he can't "inspect" the vehicle either. This is a direct violation of the 4th amendment.

There are many cases where the federal government overreaches in their limitations (after all isn't that what the Constitution is?); like Marijuana, Taxes, the Federal Reserve, etc. But, in this case it's the State violating the Federal limitations that guarantee the peoples rights. Limitations that the State agreed to upon joining the Union.

Things are far worse in California than many other States in that regard. Hawaii is horrible for anything Automotive. Want aftermarket wheels? Gotta get permission from the State! Want to lower your car? Need permission. Want tint? Permission. Body kit, spoilers, lift kits, exhaust, etc., etc., etc,. It's Crazy. I was born and raised there, won't live there either.

Here in Arizona, I have no issues with my car. I've been pulled over in it (for other reasons), and not a single officer cared how loud my exhaust was. A few would even shoot the **** with me and talk about cars seeing as how mine is obviously modified. I've mostly been pulled over for speeding (not racing or anything stupid) and they usually let me off with a warning or knock the ticket down to 0 points and $15 fine. A fix it ticket is just that. Fix it, that's it. You don't even have to prove you fixed it. It's used only to inform people that something on their car is wrong, nothing more.

Sorry, none of this is directed towards anyone in particular. But with our Government over reaching and seemingly no one want's to tell them no, it's things like this that just spark my frustration with all of it. If more people knew their rights against the Government, about everything, the less the Government can continue to over reach. Hell, it may even real them in!

 

All they need to pull you over is probable cause. They do not need a warrant to search/inspect the emissions gear once they have pulled the car over. The 4th amendment goes out the window once probable cause is introduced and the police - not you - are the ones that decide what is and isn't probable cause.

In CA, a loud car is more than enough to flag the vehicle in the eyes of the police for an inspection. Why? Chances are, a vehicle with modified exhaust is violating noise laws. Once you've been pulled over, its game on - and they don't need a warrant because the source for the initial contact was mechanical in nature. This clears them to visually inspect the rest of the car for mechanical violations.

In FL, and other states, they can pull you over for dark tint, or even having the radio up too loud. Its doesn't take a huge mental leap to see how a modded car in CA could be pulled over every 50' in a state as restrictive as CA.

 

Probable cause is enough for the officer to get a warrant. They still needed a warrant to actually search the vehicle. A warrant that states what vehicle they are searching for what particular thing that must be signed by a judge.

The 4th amendment states that a warrant is required for reasonable search and seizure. And that the warrant must have probably cause to be issued.

Probable cause isn't an automatic allowance for officers to randomly search your things. And it's not for the officer to decide. It's for a judge to decide, it says that clearly in the 4th ammendment.

A loud car is no more a probable cause to emissions violations than driving from Sierra Vista to Tucson makes you a drug smuggler.

 

Gonzo, what was the violation (code #) you were cited for?

 

All of this. Also it doesn't hurt to watch and learn from Chris Rock's How Not to Get Your *** Kicked by the Po-lice

 

No, they do not. If they have probable cause, they can search your car This is something with which I am intimately familiar. Please re-read my post above because it is 100% correct and is probably exactly what happened to the OP.

From the link:
Not every police search must be made under a lawfully executed warrant. The Supreme Court has ruled that warrantless police conduct may comply with the Fourth Amendment, so long as it's reasonable under the circumstances.

So, when can police search your car? Generally, under the following circumstances:

You have given the officer consent;
The officer has probable cause to believe there is evidence of a crime in your vehicle;
The officer reasonably believes a search is necessary for their own protection (a hidden weapon, for example); and
You have been arrested and the search is related to that arrest (such as a search for illegal drugs).

 

Cars fall under motor vehicle code, its not a "search" its an inspection which for EPA/Safety/Fire/Federal Compliance does not require a warrant, in most cases your supposed to get some notice but anyone whose seen someone **** off a building inspector should know how well its going to go if you try and take them to court..

How many have been through a SOX/Hippa/SEC audit? good luck saying no...

 

actually here in fl they cant pull you over for the loud stereo anymore. Fl supreme court decided that loud music which includes amplified music is an individuals right to freedom of expression. that being said they do seem to be strict with the dark tint. i dont see the big deal with loud exhaust. i would imagine if you put a db meter to the back of a modified 4th gen and compared that to the exhaust note of your average harley whos louder? we dont have any inspections here so i have no exp but i would imagine if you can find those muffler part numbers as suggested or could prove it otherwise ...elect a court date and fight the ticket

 

/thread

OP,
You find out if the mufflers have an EO? If not, get some stock ones, get it inspected, go to court with your proof, come back home, put aftermarket mufflers back on, rinse/repeat.

 

Pulling you over for "loud" exhaust and using that to "inspect" your vehicle for compliance of an illegal entity (read: Article 10 of the Constitution) of the federal government does not give the state the right to pull you over and "inspect" anything. Calling it an inspection when the intent is to search for specific things in the vehicle that violate a certain law based on an assumption gained from having a loud exhaust as per an individual's personal opinion is simply not constitutionally legal. And if you told the officer that you do not give him permission to search the vehicle he would HAVE to get a warrant or directly violate the 4th. Probable cause in the opinion of an individual is NOT enough to over ride the 4th.

See, this is exactly the problem I was talking about. Do you see how many of you just blindly say the government can basically do what they want, when they want, for what ever reason they want, because they feel a certain way about a person? It's crazy.

The Constitution was written specifically to avoid all of this current Governmental mess and over reach. The Constitution is a limitation of power from the people to the Government. And when the silent few speak out about how it's all illegal, we are the crazy ones, not the masses following like sheep to the slaughter because that's the way it's always been.

Is it a fight? Yes. But if everyone, everyone!, demanded the government obey the Constitution and recognize our individual inalienable rights, it wouldn't be a fight.

 

I'm not sure what part of "if they have probable cause, they don't need a warrant" is unclear, but whatever. If an officer states that they have cause to search your car, it's game over. You can try to insist that they're violating your 4th amendment rights (they're not - the Supreme Court said so...) and all that'll do is add "obstruction of justice" to your arrest sheet.

If they ask you to search, always - always - say no, because they don't have cause and probably wouldn't/couldn't get a warrant. If they tell you they're searching because they have established probable cause based on the officer's opinion that you or your car is in violation of the law - your best bet is to stand aside and let them search. Doing anything to fight it at that point will only cost you more money and probably a bit of pain.

Do I think it's ok? Hell no. But it is the way it is. You don't like it? Elect people to change it.

Not just "an individual". We're talking about a police officer, who - like it or not - has been given 'benefits' that you or I will never have. One of those is what we're discussing here. Consider them "super citizens". And yes, it IS enough to override the 4th. The Supreme Court said it is. Here's more info.

Again, in CA, all the officer needs to do is observe a vehicle driving by that he suspects is running parts that are not CA approved. They need to observe something REAL to establish probable cause. A bag of weed on the seat, a severed head on the floorboard, or in CA - an exhaust system that isn't stock. That gave them probable cause to search / inspect. In states without such Orwellian laws on car mods, this would be a far more difficult thing to prove. But it's CA - the home of the most restrictive emissions laws in the nation.

Edit: Funfact: Any cop, anywhere, can make your life very challenging if you've removed your catalytic convertors. Its federal law that if your car came with a cat, it has to have one that's OEM or equal. Doesn't matter if you live in a state that doesn't test. Federal fines for removing cats are like $15,000 or something absurd. It's rarely enforced, but it does happen. There was a guy on the 'vette forum that was cited by a cop for no cats and it cost him thousands.

 

But that 'probable cause' has to be defended and hold up in court before any 'evidence' is admissible.

But this is beside the OP's original point/issue......

Nah.....no really.

Excessive noise levels are typically measured as 'X' decibels at 'Y' feet from the tailpipes. In most states, you'd be surprised what the threshold is for 'excessive exhaust noise'......you'd pretty much would have to run with no mufflers.

The only important questions here are:

1. What's the determinative factor for establishing a 'modified exhaust';

2. How did the officer establish an illegally modified exhaust without an inspection;

3. How did the officer determine a 'too loud' exhaust without measuring.....if in fact that is what he did.

KW

 

I get what you're saying. If an officer says he's going to search my car, against my will, I will not impead that. But I will take it to court. I'll likely lose, but I'll still fight it. Legally. I'm not one of those stupid idiots that will impead an officers direction. But I will let it be known to them that I do not consent if there is no reasonable suspicion of probable cause.

An officer is a human. No super citizen status takes away from that. And it's all too easy to make it a point that they are humans prone to error and bias.

All that being said I've never had an issue with any officer. I treat them professional and courteous and treat them with respect for their position (being an officer is difficult) and life. I do have many officers that are good friends of mine, family and like family.

The easiest way to avoid all of this is to not live in areas that have this type of government. So I dont.

 

while this thread has shifted to what our rights as citizens are or not....

Op needs to answer the ?

WTF IS THE CITATION INFRACTION CODE HE GOT

full definition of whatever infraction he got can be looked up

 

Man, F that state. I'm so glad I moved out of it. Just to add to the discussion, those roadside "smog" checkpoints are VOLUNTARY, you do not have to consent to them. My Dad lives in southern CA and has been hassled like that before, all you have to do is say NO and drive off.

 

It's a state I love to visit, but would never want to live there.

 

Can you register the car as an antique/classic since it is 20+yrs old. If so, does that help with no needing to comply with the laws for newer vehicles?

 

Nope. In CA, 76 and newer must pass smog. Even my Dad's 76 Chevy truck, with no factory cats and less than 10 miles a year, has to be smogged. Crazy draconian laws over there in Lala Land.

 

That's insanity. Does he pass with no cats? I guess he has to since the car is 'stock'