hrcslam

Alright guys, the transmission is coming out tomorrow. On my way to work yesterday my car started making a horrible screetching noise when trying to engage any gear if the RPMs isn't matched to the speed (so from every stop in 1st gear). Clutch in, there's a lot of rattling. Clutch engaged (out)in neutral and all noise stops. Clutch in and it's rattling again, try to grab 1st and half the time it wont grab gear the other half it slips right in, but every time I try to engage 1st it makes the sound of an unlubed bearing being spun really fast. Once I'm going, if I don't rev match shift it'll make the same noise and the same level of random difficulty. I drove home and tried not to use the clutch (drove 57 miles and used the clutch 5 times total). Yeah for clutchless rev match shifting (down shifting like this is a biatch!.

Anywho, before I pull the trans out, I was wondering if anyone can confirm my suspicions that the TOB is bent (like a cowboy hat) and that's why sometimes it impossible and other times it works. I do have another spare TOB so It'll only cost me some cleaning supplies, trans fluid, and time. So hopefully this is the problem.

Any guesses?

BALLSS

sounds like a TO bearing. You could pull the slave & spacer to see if the clutch fork has a bunch of slop/movement to it.

Possible the pilot bearing also but you will see soon enough once you drop the tranny

or maybe a clutch disc spring broke

you can drain the tranny fluid into a clean container and re-use if you want. Or get one of those "butt plug" plastic things to put on the rear tranny shaft to keep fluid from coming out

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

Where was the TO bearing purchased if not original? The aftermarket has been known to be cheap Chinese **** and has caused issues.

BALLSS

IDK where the TO bearings were made when these cars were new with the Valeo clutch. Every clutch kit I have seen/used in the past 11 years has the same no name or country of origin on the TO bearing other than "China".

My "square top" one (LT4) same thing although it does have more meat on the bones in terms of a thicker top. That one came with a SPEC kit I bought several years ago and I still use with my Street Twin

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

I think Spec had an issue with theirs awhile ago. I did away with it and got one from the dealer.

hrcslam

Which ever one came with the McLeod Twin Disc is the one I currently have installed. I'll be installing the one from my old stock replacement PP when I get the old one out.

I pulled the slave cylinder but couldn't see anything definitive. There is a bunch of slop in the fork when seated on the pivot though. I'll have the trans out tomorrow to verify the problem though. I sure hope it's not the PP.

Any link to the good TOB? I'll need to put one on order for the future for sure of this is the issue.

I thought the McLeod PP was a stock LT4 PP though......

BALLSS

The PP McLeod uses for its single & Twin disc LT1 clutch is just the same clone LT4 one every other clutch company uses minus the red paint

My Street Twin came with the same no name round top T.O. bearing. I used the "square" top one I had from my SPEC 2+ clutch. IIRC SPEC sells the square top (LT4 Vette) one for around $80. Square top one is made in China. Can't find a marking on the round top one.

Pics of round & square top with the squar top measuring thicker

hrcslam

It wasn't the TOB. Turns out the AFT disc of my twin disc stripped all the splines off of it and ruined my input shaft. AAHHHGGGG!!!!!!!

I'm looking at about $2100 to get everything fixed. $421 for the input shaft, $450 for the Street Twin to get rebuilt (assuming that includes discs), $570 for the T-56 Rebuild kit, plus I'm going to replace the Main Shaft ($295) and 5-6 Cog ($270) while I have everything apart (5th doesn't always engage and I know from the last rebuild the Main shaft is a little work right where the 5-6 Cog is). Plus fluids, etc. Probabl get new hardware while everything is apart, so likely closer to $2200-2300. I may go back to a DF sprung hub Single disc and sell the McLeod Street Twin after it's rebuilt to offset costs a bit.

In any case I don't have that kind of scratch laying around for this and I can buy a whole other car for less (used of course). I'll probably look around for a Used T56 locally for cheap and stick that in while I save up to get this one rebuilt. For now, I need another daily Driver. Craigslist, here I come.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

Get rid of that twin disc nonsense and get a spec 3+. It's all the clutch you need.

cookseyb

A LIGHT coat of anti-seize on the TO collar and the splines wouldn't hurt.. looks dry and binding... Fel-pro N1000 is good...

hrcslam

Huh? The aft disc has no splines and the input shaft splines are bent and worn.

cookseyb

Point was the "grease worms" helped eat it up. A LIGHT lubricant when you go back will help in the future and make it shift much easier to shift.

BALLSS

^^^, any clutch swap should include a "light" coating of grease on the input shaft splines. I have always used high temp wheel bearing grease....but a very light coat in the spline grooves

hrcslam

The only part I put in dry is the brass pilot bushing, when installing a clutch and trans. A light coat of grease will not stop this carnage from happening.

Apparently this is a somewhat common occurrence with multi-disc clutch set ups. The splined surface area is much smaller than a single disc per disc, and they don't both pick up at the exact same time. If the Input shaft isn't made for a multi-disc clutch this happens sometimes. It's not just a McLeod issue either, it's all of them. I'll give them a call tomorrow and confirm the rebuild does come with new discs, maybe they'll give me a discount due to the damage it cause prematurely. Fingers crossed.

I also did more research and I may be able to replace just the input shaft without tearing apart the whole tranny. I can get a used input shaft, with warranty, for $150.

hrcslam

I'm looking into this right now. I've run the McLeod 261571 Disc with stock everything else and it did very well. It didn't bite as well as the Street Twin, but it did last longer without any damage to hard parts.....

I can do the McLeod 500 Series disc on stock everything else again for about $360, a Spec 3 runs $540. That's $180 more, but it is rated higher tq and comes with a better TOB; the deciding factor would be driveability. The McLeod 500 series did tend to chatter at low RPM stop and go slow acceleration slips. Does the Spec 3 chatter or no?

EDIT: McLeod rebuilds the 500 Series Clutch Discs for $100. So if I did go that route, it'd run me about $242. Plus the $150 for the used input shaft, then fluids and a shim kit ($40). I may be able to get this thing back on the road for less than $600..... I'll probably still just buy another car to be my daily though and let this sit for a while as I'd rather use all new parts and do a complete rebuild of the T-56.

I think I'm set on going back to a single disc sprung hub at this point though. So, what's the going rate for a rebuilt McLeod LT1 Street Twin??

hrcslam

McLeod is going to repair the damaged hub for free, nothing else of course. I'm going to have it repaired and replace the Input shaft (found one for $147 used, shipped). Then reinstall everything.

I'm also having my old McLeod 500 Series Disc rebuilt for $100 (plus shipping). I'll run the Twin disc for a while, probably until it's done. Then swap back to the Sprung hub single disc (which I'll have waiting in my garage). Then have the Twin Disc Rebuilt ($400) and sell it after that.

I'm looking at about $360 out of pocket to get the car back on the road. Not a bad deal IMO. Then I'll need to spend another $172 to get my spare clutch kit all ready to go. That puts me at $532 out of pocket right now for both clutch kits and a new (used) input shaft. This should give me piece of mind in case of another unexpected failure.

BALLSS

well $147 with your labor gets you back on the road.

Never seen the input damage you have before but have seen the rear main shaft splines "twist"

Any time you "beef up" a part like a clutch be it a twin or a single disc with more aggressive disc material and higher PP clamp force everything down stream of it is more prone to failure (tranny, drive shaft, rear gears/axles) especially with cars making considerably more HP/TQ than stock and high RPM clutch dumps running a tire. Part of the price of modding cars

hrcslam

Good points. $147+$32.90(shim kit)+$18(fluids)+labor. Not a bad deal at all. If it happens again (I doubt it, as even the McLeod service Tech said it was either the hub or the input shaft and it doubt it was the input shaft) I'll at least have a spare clutch set. Gotta pay to play right?