Help looking at first LT1 car
12-06-2016, 01:14 PM
#1
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Help looking at first LT1 car Sorry if this is in the wrong section.
I'm going to look at a 97 Camaro Z28 this Sunday. The owner says the LT1 is rebuilt and I asked for a little info and this is what he sent me- 200k on body 10k on rebuild, 11:1 with a .501 lift cam, mid length headers, full exhaust, 30lb injectors, K&n intake, he said the motor made 360hp and 400tq at the flywheel. The car has a t56 with a new clutch and flywheel. Only thing that throws me off is that he put a tubular k member on it in his driveway and says it needs an alignment bad and he wouldn't recommend driving it until it's aligned so I need to bring a trailer. Without being able to test drive the car what are some things I could do to make sure the engine and trans are in good shape and are as "fresh" as he says they are? I thought about a compression test but I've heard how hard the plugs are to get to on a lt1 and didn't know how hard it would be. How can I go through all the gears in the t56 without driving it? Just jack it up?
I'm going to look at a 97 Camaro Z28 this Sunday. The owner says the LT1 is rebuilt and I asked for a little info and this is what he sent me- 200k on body 10k on rebuild, 11:1 with a .501 lift cam, mid length headers, full exhaust, 30lb injectors, K&n intake, he said the motor made 360hp and 400tq at the flywheel. The car has a t56 with a new clutch and flywheel. Only thing that throws me off is that he put a tubular k member on it in his driveway and says it needs an alignment bad and he wouldn't recommend driving it until it's aligned so I need to bring a trailer. Without being able to test drive the car what are some things I could do to make sure the engine and trans are in good shape and are as "fresh" as he says they are? I thought about a compression test but I've heard how hard the plugs are to get to on a lt1 and didn't know how hard it would be. How can I go through all the gears in the t56 without driving it? Just jack it up?
12-06-2016, 01:39 PM
#2
Drive the car and row gears, just don't get stupid or go too fast.
I have done k swaps and driven the car to the alignment shop.
Unless something is really f-d off, all you risk is tire wear.
Look ok at car, look at tires. Are they somewhat aligned?
Start slow, row gears, don't get stupid and you should be ok.
Unless he he forgot to tighten something.
I have done k swaps and driven the car to the alignment shop.
Unless something is really f-d off, all you risk is tire wear.
Look ok at car, look at tires. Are they somewhat aligned?
Start slow, row gears, don't get stupid and you should be ok.
Unless he he forgot to tighten something.
12-06-2016, 03:28 PM
#3
12-06-2016, 03:40 PM
#4
IMHO if the owner can't/won't align the car than there may be other issues he may be trying to mask saying the car is not currently drive-able because of K-member swap.
not saying he is hiding anything but an alignment is around $75 and even without a alignment you can drive the car enough to row through the gears. It may pull heavy to one side
Like any used car you need to check it out visually and ask ?'s along the way. Ideally the owner gives straight answers. Always a good idea to jack the car up to get it on jack stand or ramps to look under car. oil leaks, signs of rust or collision, etc.
This could very well be one nice ride.
not saying he is hiding anything but an alignment is around $75 and even without a alignment you can drive the car enough to row through the gears. It may pull heavy to one side
Like any used car you need to check it out visually and ask ?'s along the way. Ideally the owner gives straight answers. Always a good idea to jack the car up to get it on jack stand or ramps to look under car. oil leaks, signs of rust or collision, etc.
This could very well be one nice ride.
12-06-2016, 09:08 PM
#5
TECH Enthusiast
you can take the oil fill cap off and check for upgraded rockers. ask for receipts. look at the paint on the body panels. if there is any orange peel or contamination like a grain of dirt or sand, then its been repainted and could have been in an accident. there is a bolt holding the fenders on. open the door and look behind the side mirror. you will be able to see a witness mark where the washer would have been moved. id at least drive it around the block. check the tires for camber or caster wear and other abnormal wear. ask who tuned it. what brand opti. dont just take his word for anything.
12-07-2016, 05:31 AM
#6
TECH Regular
Sellers that state "just needs an alignment" or "A/C just needs a charge" when selling a car are usually hiding something. As stated earlier, an alignment is cheap and would arguably bring more $ on the sales price. So where's the logic to not spending the $75 to reap an additional $500 on the sale? Something is fishy...
If you still go look and decide to not drive it, make sure any running tests include getting the car fully warmed up. Some engine ticks and knocks don't start until the engine is warm. Put the car in gear and load the engine and listen for knocks. Put it in reverse and do the same. While doing this, have the hood up and watch the movement of the engine to get an idea of the mounts. Follow the rest of the input stated above.
If you still go look and decide to not drive it, make sure any running tests include getting the car fully warmed up. Some engine ticks and knocks don't start until the engine is warm. Put the car in gear and load the engine and listen for knocks. Put it in reverse and do the same. While doing this, have the hood up and watch the movement of the engine to get an idea of the mounts. Follow the rest of the input stated above.
12-08-2016, 04:27 AM
#7
http://smd.craigslist.org/cto/5901009032.html
Is it that one? First thing I'd ask for is receipts, who built the motor. Make sure you get there when the motor is dead cold, touch the exhaust manifolds and feel around the motor making sure it's cold, and feel the back of the intake for oil leaks and jack it up and feel around under the waterpump around the timing cover for oil leaks. While it's cold just feel around all over the front and back of the motor for leaks, and take a mental note of where you saw oil (do the same thing after you run it for a while to make sure he didn't just clean up leaks before you got there). Then ask him to fire it while you stand somewhere you can see the first puff of exhaust and make sure it's not blue or black. Let him hop out of the car and you get in and look at the oil pressure (cold should be 40-60, hot should be 10-40), hold the clutch in and move the shifter through the gears, then put it in first and take your hand off the shifter and move it forward a few feet, do the same in reverse, your making sure it doesn't pop out of gear, mine pops out of reverse if you don't hold the shifter. If it grinds or pops out of reverse put it in 4th then in reverse and try again, some reason this lets me use reverse, the t56 is the most valuable part of the car so make sure it's good, a replacement is $1200. Also you are feeling how high the clutch releases and if it chatters from a stop. Ask him if he did the clutch when he did the motor. Should release kind of low but not at the floor.
Keep the car running the whole time you are there, letting it get up to temp, and verifying the fans kick on and hold temp and it doesn't overheat, it should settle around 180-210 but not get anywhere near red. Buying any LT1 it's normally critical you can take it out and mash it up to redline in 2nd, you need to see it under load pull to redline to really verify the opti is ok. Opti can be a $500 repair. You also normally need to get it up to highway speeds to make sure the 10 bolt behind that t56 doesn't whine, 6 speeds are hard on the weak 10 bolt rear. He also lives near MIR and that PA racing k member tells me he has probably run down the 1/4, so ask him for a time slip. Stock is 14.0, those mods could be around 12.5-13.0 if it's healthy, anything faster is great. Look at the date on the slip.
Ask him who did the tune and how old the opti is and what brand, and did he put loctite on the rotor screws before he installed it (notorious for backing out and destroying the opti). Pull up the back carpet over the fuel tank and look for the trap door mod which will be a hint if the fuel pump has been replaced. If he won't let you drive it far, after it's up to temp keep listening for knocks and ticks, pull the oil cap while it's running and verify no exhaust starts coming out of the cap signaling blow by. Ask for details on the rebuild, sounds like 0.026 head gaskets to get up to 11:1, but ask if it has new rings, bearings, timing chain and seals or was it just pulling the heads off to put on the thinner gaskets. Are they stock lifters? What valvesprings? What rockers? Bring tools and pull the driver side valve cover if you want (or look through the oil cap) to look at the rockers and look for sludge, that will hint if it really was rebuilt or not.
Last step is jack it up getting a front tire off the ground, turn the wheel and inspect the ball joints, tie rod ends, bushings, and steering rack looking for cracked boots or leaks. Shake the front tire feeling for play in the suspension. If you are feeling good about it, it's worth a non-refundable $100 deposit to ask him if you pay for an alignment if he'll go get one then come back again and drive it. If he has no receipts on that motor or the cam or bearings or anything, I personally would assume it's not rebuilt. Not the end of the world, longblocks are $500 on Craigslist.
Biggest advice I can give you about LT1s, do some serious reading on this forum and others before Sunday. Really take time to learn about them. And if you don't do your own work on cars, I wouldn't buy an LT1. Shops don't know about them and will bend you over. They are great cars, but you need to do your own work. Post up any questions you have while you are there on here and maybe someone can give you a quick reply. Also ask if he is on any forums that way you can stalk his old posts and make sure he's not selling a car he had issues with, there are a lot of ******** out there.
Is it that one? First thing I'd ask for is receipts, who built the motor. Make sure you get there when the motor is dead cold, touch the exhaust manifolds and feel around the motor making sure it's cold, and feel the back of the intake for oil leaks and jack it up and feel around under the waterpump around the timing cover for oil leaks. While it's cold just feel around all over the front and back of the motor for leaks, and take a mental note of where you saw oil (do the same thing after you run it for a while to make sure he didn't just clean up leaks before you got there). Then ask him to fire it while you stand somewhere you can see the first puff of exhaust and make sure it's not blue or black. Let him hop out of the car and you get in and look at the oil pressure (cold should be 40-60, hot should be 10-40), hold the clutch in and move the shifter through the gears, then put it in first and take your hand off the shifter and move it forward a few feet, do the same in reverse, your making sure it doesn't pop out of gear, mine pops out of reverse if you don't hold the shifter. If it grinds or pops out of reverse put it in 4th then in reverse and try again, some reason this lets me use reverse, the t56 is the most valuable part of the car so make sure it's good, a replacement is $1200. Also you are feeling how high the clutch releases and if it chatters from a stop. Ask him if he did the clutch when he did the motor. Should release kind of low but not at the floor.
Keep the car running the whole time you are there, letting it get up to temp, and verifying the fans kick on and hold temp and it doesn't overheat, it should settle around 180-210 but not get anywhere near red. Buying any LT1 it's normally critical you can take it out and mash it up to redline in 2nd, you need to see it under load pull to redline to really verify the opti is ok. Opti can be a $500 repair. You also normally need to get it up to highway speeds to make sure the 10 bolt behind that t56 doesn't whine, 6 speeds are hard on the weak 10 bolt rear. He also lives near MIR and that PA racing k member tells me he has probably run down the 1/4, so ask him for a time slip. Stock is 14.0, those mods could be around 12.5-13.0 if it's healthy, anything faster is great. Look at the date on the slip.
Ask him who did the tune and how old the opti is and what brand, and did he put loctite on the rotor screws before he installed it (notorious for backing out and destroying the opti). Pull up the back carpet over the fuel tank and look for the trap door mod which will be a hint if the fuel pump has been replaced. If he won't let you drive it far, after it's up to temp keep listening for knocks and ticks, pull the oil cap while it's running and verify no exhaust starts coming out of the cap signaling blow by. Ask for details on the rebuild, sounds like 0.026 head gaskets to get up to 11:1, but ask if it has new rings, bearings, timing chain and seals or was it just pulling the heads off to put on the thinner gaskets. Are they stock lifters? What valvesprings? What rockers? Bring tools and pull the driver side valve cover if you want (or look through the oil cap) to look at the rockers and look for sludge, that will hint if it really was rebuilt or not.
Last step is jack it up getting a front tire off the ground, turn the wheel and inspect the ball joints, tie rod ends, bushings, and steering rack looking for cracked boots or leaks. Shake the front tire feeling for play in the suspension. If you are feeling good about it, it's worth a non-refundable $100 deposit to ask him if you pay for an alignment if he'll go get one then come back again and drive it. If he has no receipts on that motor or the cam or bearings or anything, I personally would assume it's not rebuilt. Not the end of the world, longblocks are $500 on Craigslist.
Biggest advice I can give you about LT1s, do some serious reading on this forum and others before Sunday. Really take time to learn about them. And if you don't do your own work on cars, I wouldn't buy an LT1. Shops don't know about them and will bend you over. They are great cars, but you need to do your own work. Post up any questions you have while you are there on here and maybe someone can give you a quick reply. Also ask if he is on any forums that way you can stalk his old posts and make sure he's not selling a car he had issues with, there are a lot of ******** out there.
Last edited by bufmatmuslepants; 12-08-2016 at 04:35 AM.
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12-08-2016, 07:20 AM
#8
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Yea that is the car. I was going to trade my 1986 Z28 title for title. I'll make sure to check everything out once I get there on Sunday. The "rebuild" is what concerns me most. As long as he has some paperwork and reciepts on it then ill feel better. My 86 camaro runs great but does need some work.
12-08-2016, 07:55 AM
#9
Hell have him align it and say if you buy it you will give him the money for the alignment.
Unless this is a project car and not intended to be a DD, I would never buy a car without driving it. At $3000, sellers don't want to put much effort into the car.
You need to assume a certain amount of risk buying a cheap car. if nothing happens to it, great! But the cheaper the car is to buy, the more hidden gremlins you could come across.
But if the wheels are remotely straight, you can drive it to ensure drivetrain is OK. Suspension parts are easy to remedy...a trans/motor on it's last leg is not so easy.
Unless this is a project car and not intended to be a DD, I would never buy a car without driving it. At $3000, sellers don't want to put much effort into the car.
You need to assume a certain amount of risk buying a cheap car. if nothing happens to it, great! But the cheaper the car is to buy, the more hidden gremlins you could come across.
But if the wheels are remotely straight, you can drive it to ensure drivetrain is OK. Suspension parts are easy to remedy...a trans/motor on it's last leg is not so easy.
12-08-2016, 09:37 AM
#10
I'm being a little blunt here but that car looks like a real POS. I know it isn't fair to judge a book by its cover but it doesn't appear the owner takes very well care of the car considering the exterior condition, filth under the hood, etc. I guess it's possible they bought it that way with intention to spruce it up but who knows. But the condition of the car via pictures makes me wonder what else has been neglected or half assed. I'd also want to know if the car had been in any accidents and if so the extent of the damage. A new fender could just be a new fender but there could be more to that. In my opinion, if I am buying a car I better be driving it first and I'd also wants receipts for everything the owner is claiming. Sounds like the owner is hiding something, I'd pass.
Last edited by StealthFormula; 12-08-2016 at 09:44 AM.
12-08-2016, 12:19 PM
#11
I'm being a little blunt here but that car looks like a real POS. I know it isn't fair to judge a book by its cover but it doesn't appear the owner takes very well care of the car considering the exterior condition, filth under the hood, etc. I guess it's possible they bought it that way with intention to spruce it up but who knows. But the condition of the car via pictures makes me wonder what else has been neglected or half assed. I'd also want to know if the car had been in any accidents and if so the extent of the damage. A new fender could just be a new fender but there could be more to that. In my opinion, if I am buying a car I better be driving it first and I'd also wants receipts for everything the owner is claiming. Sounds like the owner is hiding something, I'd pass.
12-08-2016, 12:37 PM
#12
Trust me I wouldn't expect perfection by any means but I think a much nicer car could be had for just a little more $$$. For example, 3-4 years ago someone was selling one of my old LT1 f-bodies for $2k more than this car but it had half the miles and excellent paint.
12-08-2016, 12:50 PM
#13
But if you don't have the extra money then it's a moot point. I get it, I bought my 55k mi 95Z for $5000...has 75k on it now and hasn't skipped a beat.
Always comes down to what you can afford when you can afford it and find something that suits your needs.
Always comes down to what you can afford when you can afford it and find something that suits your needs.
12-08-2016, 01:10 PM
#14
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To add to what everyone else has said, although it is extremely common, the rear end leaks (drip pan under rear of car). Unless he has receipts for everything i'd be extremely skeptical. Make him get an alignment first, for all you know he could have ran over a curb, slammed a pole (replacement bumper & fender) and something in the suspension is bent.
12-08-2016, 06:37 PM
#16
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Could I get someone on here to text him and ask more about the engine and ask if he has reciepts/proof of the rebuild? see if he gives different answers than he gives me?
12-16-2016, 08:15 AM
#18
http://smd.craigslist.org/cto/5901009032.html
Is it that one? First thing I'd ask for is receipts, who built the motor. Make sure you get there when the motor is dead cold, touch the exhaust manifolds and feel around the motor making sure it's cold, and feel the back of the intake for oil leaks and jack it up and feel around under the waterpump around the timing cover for oil leaks. While it's cold just feel around all over the front and back of the motor for leaks, and take a mental note of where you saw oil (do the same thing after you run it for a while to make sure he didn't just clean up leaks before you got there). Then ask him to fire it while you stand somewhere you can see the first puff of exhaust and make sure it's not blue or black. Let him hop out of the car and you get in and look at the oil pressure (cold should be 40-60, hot should be 10-40), hold the clutch in and move the shifter through the gears, then put it in first and take your hand off the shifter and move it forward a few feet, do the same in reverse, your making sure it doesn't pop out of gear, mine pops out of reverse if you don't hold the shifter. If it grinds or pops out of reverse put it in 4th then in reverse and try again, some reason this lets me use reverse, the t56 is the most valuable part of the car so make sure it's good, a replacement is $1200. Also you are feeling how high the clutch releases and if it chatters from a stop. Ask him if he did the clutch when he did the motor. Should release kind of low but not at the floor.
Keep the car running the whole time you are there, letting it get up to temp, and verifying the fans kick on and hold temp and it doesn't overheat, it should settle around 180-210 but not get anywhere near red. Buying any LT1 it's normally critical you can take it out and mash it up to redline in 2nd, you need to see it under load pull to redline to really verify the opti is ok. Opti can be a $500 repair. You also normally need to get it up to highway speeds to make sure the 10 bolt behind that t56 doesn't whine, 6 speeds are hard on the weak 10 bolt rear. He also lives near MIR and that PA racing k member tells me he has probably run down the 1/4, so ask him for a time slip. Stock is 14.0, those mods could be around 12.5-13.0 if it's healthy, anything faster is great. Look at the date on the slip.
Ask him who did the tune and how old the opti is and what brand, and did he put loctite on the rotor screws before he installed it (notorious for backing out and destroying the opti). Pull up the back carpet over the fuel tank and look for the trap door mod which will be a hint if the fuel pump has been replaced. If he won't let you drive it far, after it's up to temp keep listening for knocks and ticks, pull the oil cap while it's running and verify no exhaust starts coming out of the cap signaling blow by. Ask for details on the rebuild, sounds like 0.026 head gaskets to get up to 11:1, but ask if it has new rings, bearings, timing chain and seals or was it just pulling the heads off to put on the thinner gaskets. Are they stock lifters? What valvesprings? What rockers? Bring tools and pull the driver side valve cover if you want (or look through the oil cap) to look at the rockers and look for sludge, that will hint if it really was rebuilt or not.
Last step is jack it up getting a front tire off the ground, turn the wheel and inspect the ball joints, tie rod ends, bushings, and steering rack looking for cracked boots or leaks. Shake the front tire feeling for play in the suspension. If you are feeling good about it, it's worth a non-refundable $100 deposit to ask him if you pay for an alignment if he'll go get one then come back again and drive it. If he has no receipts on that motor or the cam or bearings or anything, I personally would assume it's not rebuilt. Not the end of the world, longblocks are $500 on Craigslist.
Biggest advice I can give you about LT1s, do some serious reading on this forum and others before Sunday. Really take time to learn about them. And if you don't do your own work on cars, I wouldn't buy an LT1. Shops don't know about them and will bend you over. They are great cars, but you need to do your own work. Post up any questions you have while you are there on here and maybe someone can give you a quick reply. Also ask if he is on any forums that way you can stalk his old posts and make sure he's not selling a car he had issues with, there are a lot of ******** out there.
Is it that one? First thing I'd ask for is receipts, who built the motor. Make sure you get there when the motor is dead cold, touch the exhaust manifolds and feel around the motor making sure it's cold, and feel the back of the intake for oil leaks and jack it up and feel around under the waterpump around the timing cover for oil leaks. While it's cold just feel around all over the front and back of the motor for leaks, and take a mental note of where you saw oil (do the same thing after you run it for a while to make sure he didn't just clean up leaks before you got there). Then ask him to fire it while you stand somewhere you can see the first puff of exhaust and make sure it's not blue or black. Let him hop out of the car and you get in and look at the oil pressure (cold should be 40-60, hot should be 10-40), hold the clutch in and move the shifter through the gears, then put it in first and take your hand off the shifter and move it forward a few feet, do the same in reverse, your making sure it doesn't pop out of gear, mine pops out of reverse if you don't hold the shifter. If it grinds or pops out of reverse put it in 4th then in reverse and try again, some reason this lets me use reverse, the t56 is the most valuable part of the car so make sure it's good, a replacement is $1200. Also you are feeling how high the clutch releases and if it chatters from a stop. Ask him if he did the clutch when he did the motor. Should release kind of low but not at the floor.
Keep the car running the whole time you are there, letting it get up to temp, and verifying the fans kick on and hold temp and it doesn't overheat, it should settle around 180-210 but not get anywhere near red. Buying any LT1 it's normally critical you can take it out and mash it up to redline in 2nd, you need to see it under load pull to redline to really verify the opti is ok. Opti can be a $500 repair. You also normally need to get it up to highway speeds to make sure the 10 bolt behind that t56 doesn't whine, 6 speeds are hard on the weak 10 bolt rear. He also lives near MIR and that PA racing k member tells me he has probably run down the 1/4, so ask him for a time slip. Stock is 14.0, those mods could be around 12.5-13.0 if it's healthy, anything faster is great. Look at the date on the slip.
Ask him who did the tune and how old the opti is and what brand, and did he put loctite on the rotor screws before he installed it (notorious for backing out and destroying the opti). Pull up the back carpet over the fuel tank and look for the trap door mod which will be a hint if the fuel pump has been replaced. If he won't let you drive it far, after it's up to temp keep listening for knocks and ticks, pull the oil cap while it's running and verify no exhaust starts coming out of the cap signaling blow by. Ask for details on the rebuild, sounds like 0.026 head gaskets to get up to 11:1, but ask if it has new rings, bearings, timing chain and seals or was it just pulling the heads off to put on the thinner gaskets. Are they stock lifters? What valvesprings? What rockers? Bring tools and pull the driver side valve cover if you want (or look through the oil cap) to look at the rockers and look for sludge, that will hint if it really was rebuilt or not.
Last step is jack it up getting a front tire off the ground, turn the wheel and inspect the ball joints, tie rod ends, bushings, and steering rack looking for cracked boots or leaks. Shake the front tire feeling for play in the suspension. If you are feeling good about it, it's worth a non-refundable $100 deposit to ask him if you pay for an alignment if he'll go get one then come back again and drive it. If he has no receipts on that motor or the cam or bearings or anything, I personally would assume it's not rebuilt. Not the end of the world, longblocks are $500 on Craigslist.
Biggest advice I can give you about LT1s, do some serious reading on this forum and others before Sunday. Really take time to learn about them. And if you don't do your own work on cars, I wouldn't buy an LT1. Shops don't know about them and will bend you over. They are great cars, but you need to do your own work. Post up any questions you have while you are there on here and maybe someone can give you a quick reply. Also ask if he is on any forums that way you can stalk his old posts and make sure he's not selling a car he had issues with, there are a lot of ******** out there.
^^^ Everything he says, You know how many times I heard that the AC "only needs a charge" why did it leak in the first place? I installed a tubular K member and did the "String alignment from the front to the back of the front tires, was well enough to drive it to the shop. I would offer $1500 unless he atleast gets it aligned, Like said, why would he risk loosing $1500 for a $75 alignment...Does sound fishy