Cam set up? - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion



LT1-LT4 Modifications 1993-97 Gen II Small Block V8

Cam set up?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-19-2017, 10:57 AM   #1
Teching In
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 7
Default Cam set up?

Hey guys I'm looking to drop a cc503 in pretty soon. Could someone recommend a set of springs and 1.6 rr to pair it with? Thank you.
Rrod12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 12:28 PM   #2
11 Second Club
iTrader: (35)
 
StealthFormula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wayne, PA
Posts: 4,432
Default

The first thing you're going to need to do is decide whether you want to run self-aligning (SA) rockers or non-self aligning (NSA) rockers and decide whether you want to run single beehive style springs or dual springs.

For rockers, I've ran both SA and NSA. You can use either but NSA is the preferred of the two because it provides better stability. For NSA rockers, additional cost is necessary since you will also need guideplates and studs but it's IMO the right way to do it.

For springs, I've ran both single and duals. The benefits of the single beehives is weight. Less valvetrain weight is a good thing. The downside of them is protection. A dual spring, although heavier, will save your *** if one of the springs decides to break. I've seen single beehives break and wreck havoc on a motor. IMO, duals are the right way to do it.

Hope that helps. Once you decide what route you want to take with rockets and springs then we can advise you on some good pieces to consider.
StealthFormula is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 12:35 PM   #3
Teching In
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthFormula View Post
The first thing you're going to need to do is decide whether you want to run self-aligning (SA) rockers or non-self aligning (NSA) rockers and decide whether you want to run single beehive style springs or dual springs.

For rockers, I've ran both SA and NSA. You can use either but NSA is the preferred of the two because it provides better stability. For NSA rockers, additional cost is necessary since you will also need guideplates and studs but it's IMO the right way to do it.

For springs, I've ran both single and duals. The benefits of the single beehives is weight. Less valvetrain weight is a good thing. The downside of them is protection. A dual spring, although heavier, will save your *** if one of the springs decides to break. I've seen single beehives break and wreck havoc on a motor. IMO, duals are the right way to do it.

Hope that helps. Once you decide what route you want to take with rockets and springs then we can advise you on some good pieces to consider.
Thank you for the quick reply and the info. Are guideplates and studs necessary with the nsa rr? Although I want to keep the cost relatively low, I also want a set up that is going to be "safe". As for springs, I'd perfer to go with duals.
Rrod12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2017, 02:09 PM   #4
11 Second Club
iTrader: (35)
 
StealthFormula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wayne, PA
Posts: 4,432
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrod12 View Post
Thank you for the quick reply and the info. Are guideplates and studs necessary with the nsa rr? Although I want to keep the cost relatively low, I also want a set up that is going to be "safe". As for springs, I'd perfer to go with duals.
Yes, guideplates and studs are necessary with NSA rockers. You will also need hardened pushrods but you would be buying those regardless of whether you go SA or NSA with the rockers. If you decide to go NSA I recommend checking out the Comp Ultra Pro Mags 1618-16, real nice rocker, if you shop around you can get them for low $300's. There are a couple cheaper alternatives such as the Scorpions but I cannot comment of them as I've never ran them.

Since you decided to go with dual springs (good choice) I'd recommmend checking out the Crane 10308-1 spring kit. I ran those springs with the cc503 cam once upon a time. At that time the spring kit was a good value from a cost standpoint. You can also consider the Lunati duals for the LT1 motor which are also a good value. There may be a couple other dual spring kits that won't kill the wallet for the LT1 but I can't think of them at the present time.
StealthFormula is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 12:20 PM   #5
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: S.A., TX
Posts: 1,339
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthFormula View Post
.......If you decide to go NSA I recommend checking out the Comp Ultra Pro Mags 1618-16, real nice rocker, if you shop around you can get them for low $300's.......
The Ultra Pro-mags in part number 1618-16 are self aligning rockers.

http://www.racingheadservice.com/rhs...ult/?q=1618-16

In any case, non self aligning rockers are overkill for a CC-503 cam. So, in that vain.....I would recommend the Ultras, 1618-16.....no guide plates needed!

KW
KW Baraka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 12:51 PM   #6
11 Second Club
iTrader: (35)
 
StealthFormula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Wayne, PA
Posts: 4,432
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KW Baraka View Post
The Ultra Pro-mags in part number 1618-16 are self aligning rockers.

http://www.racingheadservice.com/rhs...ult/?q=1618-16

In any case, non self aligning rockers are overkill for a CC-503 cam. So, in that vain.....I would recommend the Ultras, 1618-16.....no guide plates needed!

KW
Ah shoot I'm getting my part numbers mixed up here. I can't find the NSA Pro Mags for some reason, must be one of those days.

I still vote NSA. I ran SA rockers with the cc503 cam then I added heads and a more aggressive cam and then bought more appropriate NSA rockers and therefore spent the money twice. I wish I bought NSA from the get-go. It's slightly more additional cost upfront with the NSA but minimizes money wasted if the vehicle's setup is ever changed to something more aggressive down the line which often happens. Plus the added stability never hurts. Just my .02
StealthFormula is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 02:49 PM   #7
Staging Lane
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Clemmons, NC
Posts: 62
Default

I am doing the exact same cam, and picked up a set of used Comp Pro Mag NSA. I am going to run dual springs as well and got a set of the studs and guideplates for 40 bucks from alexs parts. I wanted maximum durability since I am gonna spin this motor to 6500 RPM
aroberson77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 04:20 PM   #8
TECH Junkie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,590
Default

The Crane 10308-1 spring kit is good for a 503 cam. Often some aftermarket spring retainers have clearance conflict with SA RR. The 10308 retainers "recess" around the valve stem so this should not be a problem.

Comp Ultra Pro Mags are arguably the best RR outside of a shaft mount rig. There are other cheaper ones. I would stay away from Scorpion. I did use the Crane Gold SA's when I had a small cam with no issues

If going NSA and guide plates I use/recommend the ISKY adjustable guide plates. I found the fixed ones did not allow the RR tip to center L-R well on the valves with the GM fixed ones

These push rods, or Trick Flo are good. Check length but with the 503 cam on untouched heads & block the stock 7.200" length is likely right

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-7608-16
BALLSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2017, 09:48 PM   #9
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: S.A., TX
Posts: 1,339
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthFormula View Post
Ah shoot I'm getting my part numbers mixed up here.......
LOL........been there.....done that!

KW
KW Baraka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2017, 10:14 PM   #10
Teching In
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ****** View Post
The Crane 10308-1 spring kit is good for a 503 cam. Often some aftermarket spring retainers have clearance conflict with SA RR. The 10308 retainers "recess" around the valve stem so this should not be a problem.

Comp Ultra Pro Mags are arguably the best RR outside of a shaft mount rig. There are other cheaper ones. I would stay away from Scorpion. I did use the Crane Gold SA's when I had a small cam with no issues

If going NSA and guide plates I use/recommend the ISKY adjustable guide plates. I found the fixed ones did not allow the RR tip to center L-R well on the valves with the GM fixed ones

These push rods, or Trick Flo are good. Check length but with the 503 cam on untouched heads & block the stock 7.200" length is likely right

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-7608-16
So would i be able to get this set up for under 700? Although i want the 503, i'm looking at the lt4 hotcam kit because it has everything i need and would just seem simplerer than me making a kit, but it also cost $700..
Rrod12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2017, 06:02 AM   #11
Staging Lane
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Clemmons, NC
Posts: 62
Default

I would put my own kit together if I were you. The 503 will perform better than the hot cam and the hit cam kit springs are not very good at all
aroberson77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2017, 01:00 AM   #12
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: S.A., TX
Posts: 1,339
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aroberson77 View Post
I would put my own kit together if I were you.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by aroberson77 View Post
.....The 503 will perform better than the hot cam.....
Truth!

Quote:
Originally Posted by aroberson77 View Post
.....and the hit cam kit springs are not very good at all
Truth!

OP....there is a reason why the Hot Cam Kit is so cheap.....because, well, it's cheap.

I'm Jus' Sayin'.

KW
KW Baraka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2017, 10:12 AM   #13
TECH Junkie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,590
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrod12 View Post
So would i be able to get this set up for under 700? Although i want the 503, i'm looking at the lt4 hotcam kit because it has everything i need and would just seem simplerer than me making a kit, but it also cost $700..
....ah look up the parts and add up the cost.

don't get hung up on the cost of the hot cam "kit"...it is not a factor as it is WRONG for your motor as a "kit". The springs in that kit were designed for lighter valves of the LT4 heads. They are weak with the solid, heavier, springs of the LT1 on any cam other than a stock LT1 cam....and not really any "upgrade" for a stock cam motor.
BALLSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2017, 11:33 AM   #14
TECH Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Kernersville, NC
Posts: 541
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ****** View Post
....ah look up the parts and add up the cost.

don't get hung up on the cost of the hot cam "kit"...it is not a factor as it is WRONG for your motor as a "kit". The springs in that kit were designed for lighter valves of the LT4 heads. They are weak with the solid, heavier, springs of the LT1 on any cam other than a stock LT1 cam....and not really any "upgrade" for a stock cam motor.
I don't agree that the LT4 hotcam kit is only for motors with LT4 valves. This thing has be used for almost 20 years with stock LT1 head setups. Can't say that I've read anything that screams the springs with that kit have been problematic over the years.

It appears that the spring used in the hotcam kit is 12551483.
http://www.hawksmotorsports.com/gm-l...e-locks-shims/

When comparing it to the LT1 stock spring specs, they are very similar in spring pressures(only 5# difference @ around 1.22). So I don't think valve control is an issue with the hotcam springs when used with the hotcam. The main thing you get(and want) with the LT4 hotcam kit springs is more lift as the LT1 stocks springs can't handle the lift of the hotcam.
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...ifference.html

If he doesn't go bananas with the revs he will most likely be fine with the hotcam kit.

Last edited by ACE1252; 03-25-2017 at 11:45 AM.
ACE1252 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2017, 12:22 PM   #15
TECH Junkie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,590
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACE1252 View Post
I don't agree that the LT4 hotcam kit is only for motors with LT4 valves. This thing has be used for almost 20 years with stock LT1 head setups. Can't say that I've read anything that screams the springs with that kit have been problematic over the years.


If he doesn't go bananas with the revs he will most likely be fine with the hotcam kit.
the LT4 hot cam springs will "work" in LT1 motors...just not last long as they were designed to work with lighter valves of the hollow sodium filled valves on LT4 heads. Valve float at high rpms will occur sooner (mileage) than with another spring better suited for the application.

Valve springs are a "wear" item so if going through the work and cost of installing & buying parts, IMHO, better to buy stuff that will have a longer use life with the hot cam in a LT1 head motor.

regarding the printed stats of the springs you note, many have found the LT4 springs don't hold up well for very long in real world use when used with LT1 valves/heads.

The Op would be better off putting together another spring combination (Crane 10308-1 for example) and just buy the hot cam if that is the cam he wants....although better selection is available in the cam dept.
BALLSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2017, 12:33 PM   #16
TECH Addict
iTrader: (1)
 
myltwon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
Posts: 2,872
Default

If you're looking to save money you can always buy the cam and/or rockers on the used market.

As long as they both appear physically fine without any pitting, gouges, or defects they will be good to go.
myltwon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2017, 01:15 PM   #17
Teching In
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aroberson77 View Post
I am doing the exact same cam, and picked up a set of used Comp Pro Mag NSA. I am going to run dual springs as well and got a set of the studs and guideplates for 40 bucks from alexs parts. I wanted maximum durability since I am gonna spin this motor to 6500 RPM
Would you mind sending me a link to the studs and guideplates you picked up?
Rrod12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2017, 01:27 PM   #18
Teching In
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 7
Default

Im looking at a stud and guideplate combo from alex's parts and its saying i would have to have machine work done for the studs? Is this true and would this set up also clear my stock valve covers?
Rrod12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2017, 01:42 PM   #19
Teching In
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 7
Default

and does anyone have any suggestions for the rr? Im looking for something under $250 if possible.
Rrod12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-25-2017, 03:07 PM   #20
TECH Junkie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,590
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrod12 View Post
Im looking at a stud and guideplate combo from alex's parts and its saying i would have to have machine work done for the studs? Is this true and would this set up also clear my stock valve covers?
...because those studs don't have the locating shoulder for guide plates like ARP ones do. So the thickness of the guide plate will raise the stud thus the RR so you would then need longer push rods and you may have clearance issues now with stock valve covers.

these would be the ARP 7/16" studs

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/a...FVC4wAodnY8ECQ

you are trying to go budget on the most critical area of the engine, valve train.

Alex stuff is decent but you need to understand the differences in sizes and what that involves. His spring kit for AL heads has good reports but has been out of stock for some time now.

you could just go 3/8" SA RR and keep the studs you have

Get a set of Crane 10308-1 springs

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-10308-1

Get FelPro valve stem seals from your local auto parts store

RR-SA 3/8"

Scorpian
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/scc-scp1036

Crane
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...8-16/overview/

Summit
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...6-16/overview/

The Crane "narrow body" fit under stock valve covers. The other two also say they are "narrow body" but IDK if they do without trimming the VC braces, which in itself is no big deal to do. I have only used the Crane Gold 3/8" SA and they do fit

Your stock PR will be "OK"...but a chrome molly .080 thick wall would be better

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-7608-16

shop around for best $...maybe you can find good used RR. I would not buy used springs unless 100% sure they were not used or if used VERY little milage
BALLSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:30 AM.


 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: