H/C/I ....something unconventional
Launching!
Joined: Sep 2005
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Well one second you're asking about intakes, then talking about making an LTX-LS1 hybrid and wondering why can't LS1 heads match to an LT1 block... to be honest I'm kind of lost because you seem to disagree with everyone's advice. What exactly is your question???
At this point I'd say you'd be better off just buying a crate engine and paying a shop to install it and call it a day. https://golenengineservice.com/engin...ocks-1992-1997
At this point I'd say you'd be better off just buying a crate engine and paying a shop to install it and call it a day. https://golenengineservice.com/engin...ocks-1992-1997
Last edited by Heatmaker; Aug 23, 2017 at 09:35 PM.
Well one second you're asking about intakes, then talking about making an LTX-LS1 hybrid and wondering why can't LS1 heads match to an LT1 block... to be honest I'm kind of lost because you seem to disagree with everyone's advice. What exactly is your question???
At this point I'd say you'd be better off just buying a crate engine and paying a shop to install it and call it a day. https://golenengineservice.com/engin...ocks-1992-1997
At this point I'd say you'd be better off just buying a crate engine and paying a shop to install it and call it a day. https://golenengineservice.com/engin...ocks-1992-1997
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 159
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Well one second you're asking about intakes, then talking about making an LTX-LS1 hybrid and wondering why can't LS1 heads match to an LT1 block... to be honest I'm kind of lost because you seem to disagree with everyone's advice. What exactly is your question???
At this point I'd say you'd be better off just buying a crate engine and paying a shop to install it and call it a day. https://golenengineservice.com/engin...ocks-1992-1997
At this point I'd say you'd be better off just buying a crate engine and paying a shop to install it and call it a day. https://golenengineservice.com/engin...ocks-1992-1997
simple question....if gen1 sbc heads/intakes can be converted ...other than reverse cooling bolt pattern and port shape ie "D" square catherdral whats different in an ls head?
Since you have not been able to determine what engine build you are after, maybe you should start building the rest of the car. Then while you are building that you can figure out what engine you would like. It's going to be a big job replacing all the suspension components, rear end, wheels, adding safety equipment (roll bar, seats, harness, etc.). And also a bunch of money. But those items are things you seem to know that you are going to get. So you might as well start there. It's better to have a great chassis and a simple engine than a great engine and a stock chassis.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Feb 2015
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Since you have not been able to determine what engine build you are after, maybe you should start building the rest of the car. Then while you are building that you can figure out what engine you would like. It's going to be a big job replacing all the suspension components, rear end, wheels, adding safety equipment (roll bar, seats, harness, etc.). And also a bunch of money. But those items are things you seem to know that you are going to get. So you might as well start there. It's better to have a great chassis and a simple engine than a great engine and a stock chassis.
10 Second Club
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,630
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If you don't plan on street driving it, and can go fairly radical with the gearing, tires, converter, etc, then you won't need 600 rwhp to run a 10.50 ET. Realistically 500rwhp could get you into the low 10's N/A provided that the chassis is setup well. No need for nitrous. Any sbc single plane intake can be converted to run on an LT1 bolt pattern head. Most competent machinists can do this for you.
If you don't plan on street driving it, and can go fairly radical with the gearing, tires, converter, etc, then you won't need 600 rwhp to run a 10.50 ET. Realistically 500rwhp could get you into the low 10's N/A provided that the chassis is setup well. No need for nitrous. Any sbc single plane intake can be converted to run on an LT1 bolt pattern head. Most competent machinists can do this for you.
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Verdad Gallardo i appreciate the feedback guys i honestly didnt think id get so many replies however i think you two are missing my point. i was trying to give as much info as possible as to what my goals are and my thought process perhaps that didnt work or im crazy. lol i can gurantee the solution im after is not in a superchevy article or on golens website though
simple question....if gen1 sbc heads/intakes can be converted ...other than reverse cooling bolt pattern and port shape ie "D" square catherdral whats different in an ls head?
simple question....if gen1 sbc heads/intakes can be converted ...other than reverse cooling bolt pattern and port shape ie "D" square catherdral whats different in an ls head?
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 159
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thanx guys im confident i can get it done just bouncing ideas around. my first instinct was to put a email out to le to help me put a top end together but im not ready or at that point. i know alot of you guys know more about this platform than i do. if you run down the "fastest lt1's list" there are some common things you see over and over. im not going ro reinvent the wheel ill take a build off of karls page and mimic it. hes the man and has built alot of strong engines. chances are run a ported single plane w elbow. going carb isnt a bad option but ill stick to the efi. by the time i spend the money to do a 24x or th i can get into holley hp or dominator which keeps my options open for motor swaps or change in direction. ive got my dads barn all cleaned out and ready to move the ol bird inside and start stripping it all down....pictures to follow.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Feb 2015
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right i dont think so either and thats all im asking is why not?. i might be wrong but a 4.030 bore is fairly common even in ls world isnt it. chamber volumes are relatively close or can be easily changed by which casting you use or milling? what im not sure about is how things like plug location and other clearance issues. back when the gen3 motors first came out i cant be the only one who thought of this but like you said earlier its prob for a reason. so thats the reason im after. ill be the first to admit im a novice on the engineering behind cylinder head development but thats why we ask questions and push back against whats "normal" you have to admit having a Mast/Mamo top end on a lt1 would be bad *** would it not?
Launching!
Joined: Sep 2005
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i appreciate the feedback guys i honestly didnt think id get so many replies however i think you two are missing my point. i was trying to give as much info as possible as to what my goals are and my thought process perhaps that didnt work or im crazy. lol i can gurantee the solution im after is not in a superchevy article or on golens website though
simple question....if gen1 sbc heads/intakes can be converted ...other than reverse cooling bolt pattern and port shape ie "D" square catherdral whats different in an ls head?
simple question....if gen1 sbc heads/intakes can be converted ...other than reverse cooling bolt pattern and port shape ie "D" square catherdral whats different in an ls head?
The LT1 is based off the Gen 1 block it's why you can interchange parts with it. The LS engine block isn't designed off a Gen 1 or Gen 2 it's an entirely different block cast with different specifications that's entirely different from it's predecessors. I don't even think the pistons bores of an LT1 could even line up with the valves n the LSX head and the LSX doesn't have reverse flow cooling. It be a like trying to put a round peg in a square hole.
Here's a good read to check out on the different heads chevy made from SBC to LS7 http://www.lsxmag.com/tech-stories/e...ads-to-gen-iv/
Thread Starter
On The Tree
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[QUOTE=Heatmaker;19709211]The LT1 is based off the Gen 1 block it's why you can interchange parts with it. The LS engine block isn't designed off a Gen 1 or Gen 2 it's an entirely different block cast with different specifications that's entirely different from it's predecessors. I don't even think the pistons bores of an LT1 could even line up with the valves n the LSX head and the LSX doesn't have reverse flow cooling. It be a like trying to put a round peg in a square hole.
Here's a good read to check out on the different heads chevy made from SBC to LS7 http://www.lsxmag.com/tech-stories/e...ads-to-gen-iv/[/QUOTE
i see youve posted another hot link so i went ahead and clicked on this one. after reading through it ...i did find a couple pieces of info helpful. when you start comparing differemt generations of heads in general my idea sounds plausible. most generations were based on the previous and in alot of cases the only difference in some castings vs others could be as simple as what material its made out of steel iron alum. some are the same exact head with various volumes to aid in compression or some are as simple as different size/weight valves. various intake port shapes etc which ive admitted to. its fair you wouldnt want to mix a square with a catherdral or vice versa. the biggest thing that jumps out at me would be the switch from center bolt to perimeter bolt and obviously getting the water jackets to line up and flow properly. but with a competent machinist welding/drilling doesnt seem impossible because gen1 to gen2 has already been done. althought ill admit more crazy than id like to go but yet again just raising the question...
Here's a good read to check out on the different heads chevy made from SBC to LS7 http://www.lsxmag.com/tech-stories/e...ads-to-gen-iv/[/QUOTE
i see youve posted another hot link so i went ahead and clicked on this one. after reading through it ...i did find a couple pieces of info helpful. when you start comparing differemt generations of heads in general my idea sounds plausible. most generations were based on the previous and in alot of cases the only difference in some castings vs others could be as simple as what material its made out of steel iron alum. some are the same exact head with various volumes to aid in compression or some are as simple as different size/weight valves. various intake port shapes etc which ive admitted to. its fair you wouldnt want to mix a square with a catherdral or vice versa. the biggest thing that jumps out at me would be the switch from center bolt to perimeter bolt and obviously getting the water jackets to line up and flow properly. but with a competent machinist welding/drilling doesnt seem impossible because gen1 to gen2 has already been done. althought ill admit more crazy than id like to go but yet again just raising the question...
Ive seen other times where someone wanted to "be different" or not have the "same old setup".....and then they ran into reliability problems or had to get custom/exotic parts/etc. Why not have your cake and eat it too with a boosted LS swap that is reliable, cheaper than you think, and would drive nicely so you COULD drive it on the street with your son, instead of a track only car.
The LT1 is based off the Gen 1 block it's why you can interchange parts with it. The LS engine block isn't designed off a Gen 1 or Gen 2 it's an entirely different block cast with different specifications that's entirely different from it's predecessors. I don't even think the pistons bores of an LT1 could even line up with the valves n the LSX head and the LSX doesn't have reverse flow cooling. It be a like trying to put a round peg in a square hole.
Here's a good read to check out on the different heads chevy made from SBC to LS7 http://www.lsxmag.com/tech-stories/e...ads-to-gen-iv/
Here's a good read to check out on the different heads chevy made from SBC to LS7 http://www.lsxmag.com/tech-stories/e...ads-to-gen-iv/
Ive seen other times where someone wanted to "be different" or not have the "same old setup".....and then they ran into reliability problems or had to get custom/exotic parts/etc. Why not have your cake and eat it too with a boosted LS swap that is reliable, cheaper than you think, and would drive nicely so you COULD drive it on the street with your son, instead of a track only car.
Launching!
Joined: Sep 2005
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[QUOTE=CFLFORMULA93;19709254] If the machine shop took the LS1 head castings and smelted them down and put them into an LT1 head mold they could make those LS1 heads fit on your LT1 block 
. If they won't be doing that then they will hand you the LS1 heads and tell you to buy an LS1 block to match them too.
Fitting LS1 styled heads requires more than a machine shop it would require engineering serious engineering. You'd have to re-engineer the heads, the block, the cooling system, make custom gaskets, custom parts and at the end of the day you'd have spent close to $60,000 just to make a one off wonky hybrid motor that will never make as much power as the real deal.It's just not worth the trouble and I don't think there's a shop in existence that would take on that tasks it really is asking too much. When you see shops doing custom builds like that they do so to showcase their skills to promote their shops at Sema and stuff.
You have to match your heads to your block like mentioned before. 10's isn't that hard to get with a built 383,suspension, and drags. You can pull that with ported stock heads and a stock intake manifold.
It's an LT1 not a TPI motor. You can still hit LSX times with an LT1. The LSX just makes more power N/A which is a huge advantage over the LT1 cube for cube. The time you want to run is very doable but it's a 1/4 that most guys hit with far less work on their motors.
I would recommend to check out some youtube videos of LT1 and LS1 fbodies and check out some guys setups and then figuring out what you want to do from there.
The LT1 is based off the Gen 1 block it's why you can interchange parts with it. The LS engine block isn't designed off a Gen 1 or Gen 2 it's an entirely different block cast with different specifications that's entirely different from it's predecessors. I don't even think the pistons bores of an LT1 could even line up with the valves n the LSX head and the LSX doesn't have reverse flow cooling. It be a like trying to put a round peg in a square hole.
Here's a good read to check out on the different heads chevy made from SBC to LS7 http://www.lsxmag.com/tech-stories/e...ads-to-gen-iv/[/QUOTE
i see youve posted another hot link so i went ahead and clicked on this one. after reading through it ...i did find a couple pieces of info helpful. when you start comparing differemt generations of heads in general my idea sounds plausible. most generations were based on the previous and in alot of cases the only difference in some castings vs others could be as simple as what material its made out of steel iron alum. some are the same exact head with various volumes to aid in compression or some are as simple as different size/weight valves. various intake port shapes etc which ive admitted to. its fair you wouldnt want to mix a square with a catherdral or vice versa. the biggest thing that jumps out at me would be the switch from center bolt to perimeter bolt and obviously getting the water jackets to line up and flow properly. but with a competent machinist welding/drilling doesnt seem impossible because gen1 to gen2 has already been done. althought ill admit more crazy than id like to go but yet again just raising the question...
Here's a good read to check out on the different heads chevy made from SBC to LS7 http://www.lsxmag.com/tech-stories/e...ads-to-gen-iv/[/QUOTE
i see youve posted another hot link so i went ahead and clicked on this one. after reading through it ...i did find a couple pieces of info helpful. when you start comparing differemt generations of heads in general my idea sounds plausible. most generations were based on the previous and in alot of cases the only difference in some castings vs others could be as simple as what material its made out of steel iron alum. some are the same exact head with various volumes to aid in compression or some are as simple as different size/weight valves. various intake port shapes etc which ive admitted to. its fair you wouldnt want to mix a square with a catherdral or vice versa. the biggest thing that jumps out at me would be the switch from center bolt to perimeter bolt and obviously getting the water jackets to line up and flow properly. but with a competent machinist welding/drilling doesnt seem impossible because gen1 to gen2 has already been done. althought ill admit more crazy than id like to go but yet again just raising the question...
. If they won't be doing that then they will hand you the LS1 heads and tell you to buy an LS1 block to match them too. Fitting LS1 styled heads requires more than a machine shop it would require engineering serious engineering. You'd have to re-engineer the heads, the block, the cooling system, make custom gaskets, custom parts and at the end of the day you'd have spent close to $60,000 just to make a one off wonky hybrid motor that will never make as much power as the real deal.It's just not worth the trouble and I don't think there's a shop in existence that would take on that tasks it really is asking too much. When you see shops doing custom builds like that they do so to showcase their skills to promote their shops at Sema and stuff.
You have to match your heads to your block like mentioned before. 10's isn't that hard to get with a built 383,suspension, and drags. You can pull that with ported stock heads and a stock intake manifold.
It's an LT1 not a TPI motor. You can still hit LSX times with an LT1. The LSX just makes more power N/A which is a huge advantage over the LT1 cube for cube. The time you want to run is very doable but it's a 1/4 that most guys hit with far less work on their motors.
I would recommend to check out some youtube videos of LT1 and LS1 fbodies and check out some guys setups and then figuring out what you want to do from there.
If the machine shop took the LS1 head castings and smelted them down and put them into an LT1 head mold they could make those LS1 heads fit on your LT1 block . If they won't be doing that then they will hand you the LS1 heads and tell you to buy an LS1 block to match them too.
Fitting LS1 styled heads requires more than a machine shop it would require engineering serious engineering. You'd have to re-engineer the heads, the block, the cooling system, make custom gaskets, custom parts and at the end of the day you'd have spent close to $60,000 just to make a one off wonky hybrid motor that will never make as much power as the real deal.It's just not worth the trouble and I don't think there's a shop in existence that would take on that tasks it really is asking too much. When you see shops doing custom builds like that they do so to showcase their skills to promote their shops at Sema and stuff.
You have to match your heads to your block like mentioned before. 10's isn't that hard to get with a built 383,suspension, and drags. You can pull that with ported stock heads and a stock intake manifold.
It's an LT1 not a TPI motor. You can still hit LSX times with an LT1. The LSX just makes more power N/A which is a huge advantage over the LT1 cube for cube. The time you want to run is very doable but it's a 1/4 that most guys hit with far less work on their motors.
I would recommend to check out some youtube videos of LT1 and LS1 fbodies and check out some guys setups and then figuring out what you want to do from there.
. If they won't be doing that then they will hand you the LS1 heads and tell you to buy an LS1 block to match them too. Fitting LS1 styled heads requires more than a machine shop it would require engineering serious engineering. You'd have to re-engineer the heads, the block, the cooling system, make custom gaskets, custom parts and at the end of the day you'd have spent close to $60,000 just to make a one off wonky hybrid motor that will never make as much power as the real deal.It's just not worth the trouble and I don't think there's a shop in existence that would take on that tasks it really is asking too much. When you see shops doing custom builds like that they do so to showcase their skills to promote their shops at Sema and stuff.
You have to match your heads to your block like mentioned before. 10's isn't that hard to get with a built 383,suspension, and drags. You can pull that with ported stock heads and a stock intake manifold.
It's an LT1 not a TPI motor. You can still hit LSX times with an LT1. The LSX just makes more power N/A which is a huge advantage over the LT1 cube for cube. The time you want to run is very doable but it's a 1/4 that most guys hit with far less work on their motors.
I would recommend to check out some youtube videos of LT1 and LS1 fbodies and check out some guys setups and then figuring out what you want to do from there.
- LS1 and LS6 engines can only use LS1, LS6 and LS2 heads because of the smaller (3.89-inches) bore size. Using heads designed for larger engines will cause the valve-to-block interference.
- LS2 blocks are able to use LS1/LS6 heads because of the larger 4.00-inch bore, as well as the L92-style family of heads that also includes LS3, LS9 and LSA cylinder heads.
- The LS3/L92 engines can use any head except for the LS7 and C5R.
- The LS7 blocks can use any LS-series head but should be matched with heads designed for at least 4.10-inch bores but 4.125-inch bores are preferred.
Last edited by Spamfritter; Aug 25, 2017 at 08:50 AM.
Hell, building up an LT1 is pretty different as a lThere are also ways of doing something different and still getting something that works using more or less conventional parts. You may not have a unique combo, but you can have something that few others do if that's your aim. If money isn't an object, you could do a Procharged or turbocharged 383 LT1 stroker. Throw an intake on it that looks cool and call it a day. It's not the most original idea, but few people do it anymore.[/QUOTE]
I couldn't agree more. There is very few people still doing LT1 builds! By starting with the LT1 your already different enough lol. There's only one LT1 car I see at the common car shows around here.
I couldn't agree more. There is very few people still doing LT1 builds! By starting with the LT1 your already different enough lol. There's only one LT1 car I see at the common car shows around here.
I always liked Mike quik95lt1s 8500rpm beast, that is different. It's a 388 with some really high end bottom end pieces to handle that 8500rpm through the traps, shaft mount rockers, but then fairly simple AI ported trickflows. I'd always liked the idea of mikes bottom end with some sb2.2 or Brodix heads, and a tall single plane, just getting away from the limits of LT based heads and taking advantage of the sbc heads. You would have to go to 0.060 over, so block selection is key, since most good sbc heads need a bigger bore.