New 355, noise, possibly lifters? - Page 2 - LS1TECH - Camaro and Firebird Forum Discussion

Notices
LT1-LT4 Modifications 1993-97 Gen II Small Block V8

New 355, noise, possibly lifters?

Reply

Old 03-09-2018, 11:57 AM
  #21  
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Jacksonviil FL
Posts: 89
Default

I started the car last night (around 11pm). Let it idle for bit and shut it off so the neighbors don't kill me. The valve train sounded pretty much just like yours in the video. So far so good. I'm going to test drive it tonight after work and see if the noise is gone once under a load.
DirtyMike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2018, 09:30 AM
  #22  
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Jacksonviil FL
Posts: 89
Default

Test drove the car sat and found the noise to still be present. On the bright side it felt like it had the power that it should, but I'll be pulling the engine tonight and tomorrow to inspect the bottom end. The noise has to be coming from the lower end. Anyone ever seen a cam bearing go bad. The machine shop installed all new bearings but I am just thinking out loud. I wonder if thy could have installed the wrong size rod bearings? They installed the ARP hardware on the rods, and said that because of the extra clamping force of the ARP's they would have to line bore the rods to make sure they were true. Does this sound like a process? At this point I'm kinda wishing I would have just bought a whole rotating assembly. lol
DirtyMike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2018, 06:12 PM
  #23  
TECH Apprentice
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tucker, GA
Posts: 340
Default

Cam bearings do go bad, but they don't knock like a rod. Worn out cam bearings usually present as low oil pressure, or a squeal. Get an oil filter cutter and open the filter to see what you see. If there's no metal flake, your sounds are not bearing related. Flexplate / flywheel bolt coming out, cracked flexplate/flywheel, and exhaust leaks can all make a nasty tick sound.
atlantadan is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2018, 06:39 PM
  #24  
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Jacksonviil FL
Posts: 89
Default

In the process of pulling this thing out to tear it apart again. Found metal flakes in the oil.
DirtyMike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2018, 08:28 PM
  #25  
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Jacksonviil FL
Posts: 89
Default

Got the engine on the stand and atleast got the pan off to take a look at the bottom end. The engine was even still warm from running it about two hours before. Lol. Is the crank supposed to look like this? This looks mighty fresh to me and would explain why the oil looks like candy paint. Also I did notice the noise changed pitch as I put the clutch in and out. So what's yall's diagnosis? Thrust bearings?
DirtyMike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-12-2018, 09:04 PM
  #26  
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Jacksonviil FL
Posts: 89
Default

Rotatng the engine over by hand leads me to believe this may be normal. I don't see anything it could contact. Tomorrow night I'll pull it down to the bare short block and have a closer look.
DirtyMike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 07:38 PM
  #27  
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,205
Default

Were those makes on the counterweights when the engine was built?

And judging by the fact that the noise went away when you pushed the clutch in, I would guess thrust bearings.
97Z28SS is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 08:19 PM
  #28  
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Jacksonviil FL
Posts: 89
Default

I honestly can't' remember if those mark were there or not.

update though.... I pulled the oil pump off and was inspecting the entire bottom end. I can see the very rear cam bearing is completely gone. I guess that would explain the metal in the oil. I left my puller at the shop, but tomorrow I'll pull the crank pulley and timing cover. I hope the darn cam is ok, but I should probably plan on buying another.

If in fact the cam bearing went, what would have caused this? I installed the cam, and it's not my first time either. Plenty of lube and it slide in fine.
DirtyMike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 09:25 AM
  #29  
Village Troll
iTrader: (2)
 
SS RRR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Jackstandican
Posts: 9,383
Default

Originally Posted by DirtyMike View Post
I honestly can't' remember if those mark were there or not
You're talking about the crank counter weights? Pretty sure those are there from when the rotating assy. was balanced? As far as the cam bearing, it's possible it was not installed properly and/or oil starved.
SS RRR is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 09:35 AM
  #30  
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Jacksonviil FL
Posts: 89
Default

Do these look normal for pistons with roughly 100 miles on them? I called the machine shop and they told me to pull the heads and see what the top of the pistons look like. They said I might have had too much fuel and wiped out a bearing.

I have a wideband in the car and it's been running pretty lean as far as that goes. Not unsafe but definitely not rich enough to soak the cylinders.

I pulled the cam out this morning and it looks like it's' ok. Looked in the block and the cam bearings look OK but have a few scuffs on them.

how do these pistons look? I'm taking the engine to them today and I don't want them to put this on me unless it's' something I actually caused which I can see how I would have.
DirtyMike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 09:55 AM
  #31  
Village Troll
iTrader: (2)
 
SS RRR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Jackstandican
Posts: 9,383
Default

Did you smell raw fuel in the oil? Those pistons look fine, IMO. I would think if there was fuel in the oil it would've affected more than that one bearing. What I do remember is the ton of people who've done a cam swap and somehow wiped out the rear-most bearing afterwards. I don't remember why, but there have been many who've experienced it. Hard to tell, but is there still a cross hatch on your cylinder walls?
SS RRR is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 10:02 AM
  #32  
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Jacksonviil FL
Posts: 89
Default

I'm not saying that I couldn't have made a mistake putting the cam in. I just don't see how I could have messed up the bearing. I've done a fair share of cam swaps and this install was about as smooth as it gets. Assembly lube and slide it in. Lol.

The cylinders still have the cross hatch in them. The only thing I noticed was while looking from the bottom at the cylinders you can see a few scuff marks where the piston skirt was contacting.
DirtyMike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 10:19 AM
  #33  
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Jacksonviil FL
Posts: 89
Default

Oh, and the oil does not a have a fuel smell. I might take them a sample of the oil too just to show them the metal in it also.
DirtyMike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 10:25 AM
  #34  
Village Troll
iTrader: (2)
 
SS RRR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Jackstandican
Posts: 9,383
Default

Originally Posted by DirtyMike View Post
Oh, and the oil does not a have a fuel smell. I might take them a sample of the oil too just to show them the metal in it also.
This will tell you everything you need to know:

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php
SS RRR is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 04:19 PM
  #35  
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Jacksonviil FL
Posts: 89
Default

Dropped the short block off at the shop. The guy is dead set on me having an over fueling issue. He thinks I washed down the walls and got so much fuel in the oil that it wiped out the bearings.
DirtyMike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2018, 05:24 PM
  #36  
Village Troll
iTrader: (2)
 
SS RRR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Jackstandican
Posts: 9,383
Default

If you still have your oil, get some analyzed.
SS RRR is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2018, 04:11 PM
  #37  
TECH Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,195
Default

Originally Posted by DirtyMike View Post
Oh, and the oil does not a have a fuel smell. I might take them a sample of the oil too just to show them the metal in it also.
Originally Posted by DirtyMike View Post
Dropped the short block off at the shop. The guy is dead set on me having an over fueling issue. He thinks I washed down the walls and got so much fuel in the oil that it wiped out the bearings.
...gas in oil smells like...gas. You don't notice a smell and machinist says bearing was wiped, in his opinion, from over fueling

oil analysis would confirm if you or shop can't smell fuel in the oil
BALLSS is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2018, 04:46 PM
  #38  
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Jacksonviil FL
Posts: 89
Default

Talked to the shop today and he said that I wiped out a rod bearing. He said when he pulled the cap off the rod the smell of fuel was strong and the bearings were black from being heated up. He told me that he will have it ready to for pick up early next week. I don't really want the headache of going back and fourth with them about what caused the bearing to spin. He said he will cover the bearings and I'd have to cover the labor.

But I do think I will order a kit just to see for myself if there is an over fueling issue. I just feel like I have multiple things on my side of it that point away from that. Wideband reading pretty good afr's, new injectors, no fuel smell coming from the exhaust... etc. I could be totally wrong but I guess the oil test will confirm that.
DirtyMike is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2018, 05:05 PM
  #39  
TECH Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,195
Default

yeah the fact is a bearing spun so that has to be fixed. Shop is taking the position the "why" is not their fault so you pay their labor

You need to find out if the spun bearing was a result of over fueling which your logging indicates there was not a fuel issue..hence the oil analysis to see if there is gas in it

if not and you can't find a leaking injector (although that should have shown up in AF, 02, STFT log) than the ? becomes "was the bearing tolerance to close"...being a assembly error.

Odd just 1 bearing burnt...would think all would show signs if this was a over fueling issue.

so yeah if no gas in oil this will turn into a pissing contest between you and the builder
BALLSS is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2018, 05:32 PM
  #40  
Staging Lane
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Jacksonviil FL
Posts: 89
Default

Exactly. Which is why I will just have them fix it and move on. If the oil test shows little to no fuel, I might go back up there afterwards and mention it but the most important thing right now is for them to fix it right.
DirtyMike is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: