96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

Well finally got off my butt and I am working on tearing into the turd. Its my first car a 1996 Pontiac Firebird. Its been down with the junkyard 385. Anyways figure I might make a small build thread on it. Currently the 385 stroker engine that came from a pick and pull does not have oil pressure getting threw the lifters. We are thinking that in the wreck the #5 cam bearing has spun and might be out of alignment. OIl pressure at the sensor hole is great. So going to tear it down and see what is wrong. Will say this is the last rebuild of this car. If this one fails I will just raid the t-56, sell some parts and scrap the rest. But hopefully it will run. Shoot its been mostly off the road since February of 2009. Since I bought this car in April of 2008 its track record is pretty bad.

Anyways here is a few pictures from today.

One Dirty Turd






Cleaned up somewhat



On stands getting taken apart.



The fun of doing this a million times in the past is making it easy for engine removal. Pretty much down to the exhaust, torque arm, t-56 wiring and shifter stick, brake lines and steering shaft. At that point its lift the body up. Hopefully its out tomorrow with the engine on the stand. Then this week it should be torn down to see what is is broken. Plan is to take the good things out of this block and shove it into the cars original block. This was I can use the arp stud kit that is already in the other block. Plus and this point I no longer trust the block. It had some cracks that we welded up. So going to see what I can do. I know a few changes will happen include ditching the huge cam. Wanting something more midrange. Might try to autocross this car some so wanting a good 2500-6000 range cam. As I got bored with drag racing years ago. Especially after doing track days and 24 hours of lemons. But first time for tear down.

Ghostinthemachine

Turd I'll show you a turd
.

Ghostinthemachine

Resist the urge to Pull a tranny ...
Save That Bird.!
I'm in.!
Might learn something.......GnM

96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

If you only knew the amount of money this car has ate. 2 used engines, 3 rebuilds, one transmission as well as 3 clutches. Some bad parts, some bad luck, some bad machine shop work. All to go about 1200 miles and that is a good estimate. This is the last round. If it blows up again. Stealing the stage 2 t-56 with maybe 1000 miles and parting the rest.

That being said the horrible exhaust welding has been a pain. That plus the 113 degree heat index Sunday made it hard to work as the car is in a hot driveway. Plus we got rain in the evenings. Today got home ate dinner and got more rain. Hopefully the rain goes away before the enthusiasm.

biketopia

iTrader: (5)

I see the car at one point was from VA?! Keep after it man, double check yourself on the engine and you'll be rocking and rolling in no time.

96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

Yep It lived in VA from 1996-2008. Bought it up there and its been in SC since I have owned it. Only the third owner of this turd.

Good news exhaust is off. Figure about 45 mins of stuff to remove then chain the engine up and go. Gave up tonight as I need to get the front higher up in the air and the dam misquotes were out in force. So will work on it more tomorrow night. Plan to pull the engine Sunday as working on our 24 hours of lemons coronet this weekend.

96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

Well been busy with work and the 95 degree days with 75% humidity makes it a no go to work on it after work. Anyways this happened today.









Found some other issues.



Tires on the car are shot even tho they have 90% tread . Mmm those 2007 Date codes. They have also become very dry rotted from 11 years of sitting. Guess tires will be going on very early once its back on the road. Now to get some more motivation as its lacking right now. Maybe by the end of the weak the engine can be torn down.

Ghostinthemachine

I learned something ....Pull the motor with the "K" memeber

96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

That is the easy way to these out. Only way I have pulled the engine in a 4th gen. Herd is a pain especially with a 6spd car to come out the top.

96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

So Friday I got the engine torn down. Found some good and bad. Crankshaft looks fine considering it was run with no oil pressure. Rods are also ok. However the camshaft is trash as well as the lifers. Piston skirts are also worn. But was not bad to tear down. Start to finish was about an hour and a half.

Few shots from tear down.









So on tear down money was on a spun cam bearing. Looks like that could be true. #5 camshaft bearing is not lined up with the hole in the block. as shown here.



So that could be the issue of oil not getting threw the block as the #5 bearing is no longer lined up. Bearings #2-4 seems fine. Bearing #1 also looks a little off with blocked passages. Was trying to find my book on how to rebuild an Lt-1. Guess I will be ordering a new copy as I have not seen it in at least 2.5 years. Did find the ball bearing was still in the back oil passage. So leaning towards to cam bearing being the issue. Guess now its to decide what to build. The old cam in this engine was stamped as a le 3.2. However I am wanting something a little smaller with a good midrange. 2500-6000 would make a fun driver. No interest in ever drag racing the car again. If anything it will become an Autocross car. Would say it could be a fun track day car but the Miata does a decent job at that.

Ghostinthemachine

Great job thanks for the picture
roller rockers behave valve springd
chambered oil holes on the crank
all good stuff

tbird31

iTrader: (22)

I remember years ago I think I talked to you about buying this car. Glad you kept it and are rebuilding. I'd suggest an off the shelf 503. I absolutely loved the low/mid range that cam had when I had it in my car. It felt faster then my car did after the new heads/cam, but before the 24x and exhaust change up I did. Honestly, I should've kept it and never swapped...but can't do anything about it now.

Goodluck with the build!

96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

All done from the old owner. This engine came from the pick and pull. Its a nice setup....if it would run.

Some old PMs from 2016 say you did. As you can see the car has done nothing but rot away. Its funny as there is a cc503 in the cars old engine. But it never felt fast. Car had a hotcam and cc503. Both on crappy tunes last one being pcmforless. But even with the cc503 the car felt much slower than the stock cam. I will probably give lloyd elliot a call and see what he recommends since it has a set of le2 heads on it. This is the last rebuild for me with this car. If it blows up again I will part some of it out and send the rest to the scrap yard. Even now still keep debating just taking the t-56 and doing a lsx swap in something else. Who knows with the turd. Figuring I need to drop the gas tank and maybe replace it. Found the evap line has rotted away at a rubber connection and the tank has been venting. Probably not good on the 1/4? Tank or less. This stuff smells bad. Also got to budget for an injector cleaning or a set of replacements as the gas that came out of the rail was very dark colored. My original budget of 2k is creeping onto 3k with fuel system stuff and a new batch of tires. But that is just the life with the Fireturd. Throw money at it or burn it. You get the same result in the end. Nothing at all.

96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

Well after talking to some people. Cam bearing is the problem. So I guess its now time to save some cash to throw at the rebuild. Will be doing piece by piece I guess. Step one is figure out what compression and stuff the old engine was at. Loads of measuring to go.

Ghostinthemachine

Price Might Be better to get another Engine i know from experance machining can get expsensive....Sorry for the spelling

96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

So yes and no. I was burned a few years ago buying a engine. Paid $800. Got the engine in the car and running only to have the t-56 input shaft bearing take a dump. Car ran decent. Car then sat about a year. Fixed the transmission. Drove the car back to college which was 100 miles away. Got into town only for it to be puking smoking out the back. Next day oil pressures dropped to almost nothing. Come to find out it had been "rebuilt" when I found the .030 pistons in it.

With the lloyd elliot heads and 385 bits it will be cheaper to machine the cars original block. Figure bearings, hone and maybe bore as its at .030. It already has a arp stud kit and was line honed. Check the heads out , order a camshaft and gaskets then it should be good to go.

Granted enthusiasm is back to zero. Car is a roller again and at this point as I needed to move it in the yard. A few c5 corvettes have been catching my eye. Half of me says its easier to part the car out now. The other half says fix it. Not sure which one is winning at this point.

Ghostinthemachine

I get it.!
Sometime you just have to cut bait ....thanks for the pictures and the Little write up
Cool ....GM

96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

Well going to try and dig out the cars old block tomorrow. Its covered in a whole bunch of junk from other part outs. Need to see what condition that thing is in as its been sitting 4 years now? I know I oiled it down but its been sitting under boxes. So need to dig it out. Curious if the cc503 is still any good. Granted it will probably go in a box never to be used again just like the hotcam.

96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

Well dug the old block out of the garage. Some ok news and some bad news. I had thought I had left the cc503 in the engine block. Turns out I had put in a box. That box got wet when the garage flooded. Anyways the cc503 is now trash as a few of the cam lobes are rusted. So well for that idea or even selling the camshaft off. Guess it is how the Turd likes to play the game.

Rusted out cc503....now worthless. Only had 500? miles on it.



One of the worst cam lobes


Onto the block. Found mice and used it as a home. Got somewhat lucky and the rust in the valley did not touch the lifter bores. Some light rust for the hold down plates but it can be cleaned up.
Pulled out


Coming out into the day light for the first time in years.



A little rust but lots of mice poo.



I cleaned out the cylinders of spiders and other things. The 350 crankshaft might not be good as there is some rust on some of the journals. Not that I was planning on going back to a 355. Bad news is the bores on the block are pretty bad. Top needs a deck due to rust. Some of the cylinders have some surface rust. Should clean up with a bore. Really do not want to go more than .040 but might have to go more than that. Cylinder 5 and 7 have some scratches that catch my nail. So doubt I am getting away with a hone.

So my shopping list is going to be started I think. Trying to figure out what this car needs to run and drive. List so far includes.

- Pistons
- Clean 383 crankshaft.
- Bore, Hone, Deck and clearence the block,
- Oil pump even tho old one is working fine
- camshaft as well as a new set of cam bearings
- Check heads out. Maybe do a valve job
- Gaskets for everything
- ECU Retune
- Clean out the 30lb injectors as well as check the gas tank out. Vent tube had rotted away and was venting. Gas that came out of the rail was very dark and smelled horrible.
- Tires. Probably swap to the 17/18 C5 wheels I have had for years.

So right now it looks like the old block is ok to use. Needs machine shop work. For now I cleaned it up and re oiled everything down. Still not excited about the project. Cost is going up which is expected. Figure probably close to 3k just to get it driving again. They joy of the turd.....

96Formula6spd

iTrader: (7)

Well got a spreadsheet going. Its looking very expensive. So far I am just short of $2300 without any machine shop work or gaskets. This does include $540 in tires. The cars old pistons are not looking very good and will probably not be reused. That adds around $675 into another set of pistons. I can help get a decent compression ratio but just keeps adding to the cost. Figure with machine shop work, gaskets and maybe some fuel system work as the stuff in the tank smells bad and has an open vent due to a rotted out evap line I am going to be over $3000 to get this car back running again.

Has me in a big debate. One hand the car could be making some decent power and could be fun to drive? Power is nice but I would want to make it handle so the eibach pro-kit would probably go in the bin for a set of strano springs. Of course the car has to run before any other suspension work. Also figure it needs another couple hundred in rust repair of the windshield area under the t-tops. Decisions decisions. That being said giving a C5 Corvette a try at the next autocross in 2 weeks. Might just part out and get into a C5 corvette and use that for autocross and maybe track days.