GH1086

Is it possible to get 400+WHP with a H/C package and the supporting mods?
The ones I see usually dyno around 380WHP to 390WHP, so I am assuming it is, but just wanted to see what everyone else said. Oh yeah and would a LE H/C package get me there?

Quickshotkimber

iTrader: (1)

I made 421 rwhp and 428 rwtq at over 4000rpm with my setup through a 12bolt,turbo 350, and a non lockup converter. Should be hitting mid tens by the end of the season with a stock bottom end. I'm Happy

Evaporate

iTrader: (22)

It looks like the LE packages have been getting people in that range at a good price.

Quickshot, does that come in a package deal somewhere? Is that cam streetable?

Quickshotkimber

iTrader: (1)

Yeah it does. Eric ports the heads and Joe grinds the cam to get you where you want. I have a big cam, and it has more TQ down low than my old 226 232. Unreal powerband. If you see anyone else duplicate my ETs with LT1 castings, let me know. The car is completely streetable. Heads with large port volumes and poor velocity usually loose low and midrange power. Not me I still have stock size valves. The gen7 tuning may have something to do with that, especially with Joe at the helm on the laptop. I think the porting is 800 plus the parts that you want. No stages, just fast as HELL!

Brett95z

iTrader: (-1)

I havent read much on this lately, but i thought Joe wasn't doing cams anymore? He was fed up with doing custom cams last i heard. But i have also heard that Joe. O/Bret Bauer do Lloyds cams.

Quickshotkimber

iTrader: (1)

Joe still grinds cams for people who want to be quicker than the norm. Lloyd asked Joe to grind his cams for him because the cars were not running quicker than 12s with his heads and an off the shelf cam. After Joe supplied some of the cams and buisness picked up, Bret began selling cams to Lloyd for something like 20$ cheaper. Oh well. I'll stick with the guy who has the quickest LT1, H&C LT1, and H&C LS1. He must be doing something right.

Brett95z

iTrader: (-1)

I agree with what your saying. But the times have nothing to do with Lloyds heads. As anyone with any know how can vouch for the quality in his work.

Quickshotkimber

iTrader: (1)

I just saw one of his heads on the flow bench. Flow #s are nothing if you don't know the port volume. I don't have anything against Lloyd. I just don't understand the bandwagon mentality lately with no ETs to back it up, that's all. I expect low 11s out of a low buck H&C LT1. If I can do it, anyone can. I also don't believe in stages. A head should be ported with one thing in mind, flow #s in relation to port volume. Big ports cause a loss of low and midrange power causing the need to run a smaller cam to be streetable. A big head porter on CZ28 told me the other day that he could flow 300 and make the port look like a sewer pipe, but the car will not run.

travie319

iTrader: (1)

EVERYBODY TALKS ABOUT ERIC BRADBY BUT HOW DO GET AHOLD OF HIM?
is there no web site?

Quickshotkimber

iTrader: (1)

He doesn't have a website. I don't think he is hurting for buisness. PM me if you want his #. I just hate to post it and have all kinds of people calling just wanting to BS.

skinnies

iTrader: (33)

Tim has been a little quicker and a lot faster than you, even in a 6 speed, not sure of his name on here, but he is 95Bird on cz28.com

10.93 @ 125.8 1.47 60' Na on old lt1 heads/intake.(428rhwp/407 rwtq)

Clint went 1.58 60' 11.24@120.8mph with a car setup for nitrous(no where near enough gear for n/a)

I believe Ken went 11.27@118 on stock heads(unported), someone correct me if I'm wrong though because I haven't kept up with Ken a lot lately.

Steve Quinn...."My old 350 motor went a best of 10.54 @ 129, with a 240/250 hr cam, ported stock lt1 heads, about 3350 lbs"


Here's a few taken off the fastest list on cz28...

Dave Odehnal
1993 Camaro Z28
Ported factory LT1 casting heads and intake.
1/4:10.15 at 134mph
60 ft: 1.37

"TonySS1"
1996 Camaro SS
398 LT1, solid roller, TH400
1/4: 10.28 @ 133mph
60ft: 1.35

Ken "Kamba93LT1"
1993 Z28
355ci LT1 ,TEA LT1 heads, hyd. cam. turbo 400 w/ brake, KTRE 12-bolt w/ 4.56, 28x9.0 slick
1/4: 10.983 @ 120.93
1/8: 6.950 @ 98.23
60 foot: 1.442

As far as Lloyds quality, he does good work, I've ran two setups from him, see sig for details. My 11.71 at 116.7 pass was in 2350DA. Could've easily been a high 11.4x at 118+mph with better DA. I had planned to taking that setup to 11.2x's at a high 118+mph with the rest of the bolt ons, some suspension, and a tune, but I ended up selling the motor to my buddy for the 383. Never got the 383 to run more than 1200 miles though, kept breaking timing chains.

Both my setups were daily drivers also. I think if your running the le2 or le3 setup you should be deep 11's at 120+mph in a decent(not a really good) setup car. I think the le3 package is capable of 10.90's on a stock bottom end or 355, with the 4l60e, and 10.70's with a th-350/brake. Although, I haven't seen one car setup right with the le3 package yet.

METALBEAST

iTrader: (1)

Here of late, the LT1 aftermarket has been coming on strong. 400+ RWHP H/C packages are very common. Advanced Induction and Lloyd Elliot have several H/C that can get you in that range on a stock bottom end.

BigKap94z

iTrader: (47)

I am not trying to start a fight or call BS but wow, each of these guys mentioned has there own loyal supporters...ans it seems like most are so loyal they start saying things, that aren't so valid. It always ends up in a "sword fight". I haven't used Joe O/ E or E.B but i have seen some of Ai's work, and I have personally had Lloyd do 2 sets of heads for me, and Bret is working on my second custom cam....I think they all do good work. As for the bandwagon jumping, there have been plenty of good ET's from Bret and Lloyd to cause that. Its an awesome bang for the buck operation the have going over there. Also I personally know Bret, and he's is one of the smartest ************* out there. From what I have seen, these cars run great with the LE packages...they Dyno exactly what they should or higher....but then people don't go ahead and build the suspension or anything....so they don't get low 11's because its not hooked. Oh, and Quickshot your car runs awesome, but I do think some of your advanatage goes to your tuning and DFI. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents out there, I just hate seeing these threads get ruined by Ego's and nothing gets accomplished.

Brett95z

iTrader: (-1)

There is definately more to quickshots 11.0's than His heads

You are running DFI, with Tuning my Joe Overton. <--- Big advantage of the mail order tunes most guys are running.

Your car weighs less than most cars ( 3550 race weight )

Whats your suspension setup? Id be willing to bet your not using an eibach prokit with giant sway bars and running 17" wheels with 275 Yokohamas or something.

What are your cam specs? Remember, the cam is the brain of the engine, the heads arent.

Your also running a th350. Which leads me to believe that your car is setup mainly for drag racing. E.T's arent everything to everyone. Some people are into auto-x, some people are just into looking good and having some power to back it up. Some people rather race from a roll etc. You are putting WAY too much emphasis on 1/4 times.

Quickshotkimber

iTrader: (1)

You are right, there is alot more to my times than just the heads. I have most of the performance bolt ons. Joe tuning the car is a big help.I have seen some very good mail order tunes, but you will always be leaving something on the table. I started out with LT1 edit and the car ran great at the track. The gen7 really made it drive almost as good as stock in the street. First we just spliced in the gen 7 with the stock computer so that I could run the 4l60e. It just kept tugging at the splices after hard launches and got to be a real pain in the ***. I didn't want to go with a th350, but I just figured I might as well and go ahead and sell the 4l60e while it was still in great shape. I miss that overdrive
The car weighs 3550 with me in it. I don't really consider that very light. I just pulled out the back seat and passenger seat. That leather is HEAVY! I did not have any lightweight parts that alot of guys run, like brakes, k member, a arms, weight reduction, ect...
The suspension is pretty basic. Spohn relocation brackets with tubular control arms. V6 springs in the rear with comp engineering 3 way shocks, just replaced with hals Spohn TQ arm because of the transmission swap. No front swaybar. Stock panhard rod. Wolfe antiroll bar out back. Got alot of work to do in the suspension dept.
I don't see how the tranny is an advantage. It uses more power and has no transbrake. I wish I had opted for the 275 first gear instead of the 250 that I got. I sure miss that 3 plus first gear in my old 4l60e. Definately would have a better 60ft with the 4l60e.
I cruise around on weld wheels and run the car on drag radials. Never want to have a strip only car. Not that I race in the street, it is just nice to go for a ride after work.
The cam is bigger than a 306. I have heard alot of times that it would suck for the street and wouldn't have any low end power. Well I'm happy to say that they were wrong. The car has incredible TQ instantly upon command, and can be driven very smoothly. Moderate stall helps with that. A manual would probably be choppy under 2000 rpms. It is a beast from a roll. The problem is that I can't go much over 120 with the 26" tires that I was running. It runs out of rpm with no overdrive and a stall. It was very frustrating at the track. I have a new set of MT DRs that should give me enough to make it.
I imagine with a 6 speed, the car would be incredible for auto-xing. With a different suspension set up. The heads had only what was nessacery removed and stock size valves installed to keep maximum port velocity. That is the reason for the great low and midrange with a big cam.
Anything else you want to know, not trying to hide anything.

Quickshotkimber

iTrader: (1)

Agreed, when I first came on here, everyone said that you had to spray or build a stroker to make 400 or run 11s. Alot of people still think that.

regorih383

iTrader: (21)

Do you mind if I ask, can you share the flow chart of the heads? and specs on the cam? If you would like to keep it a secreat its fine. Its just that its hard to find a good combo with LT1 and everyone could use the knolege

Quickshotkimber

iTrader: (1)

First off, that sucks about your timing chains, Did you ever figure out what was causing it?
Second, I should have been more clear. I meant with a stock bottom end. It is hard to compare with 355s or 383 because so much is changed. Some for the worse, some put together very well. 95 bird is hauling, but that is with a built 355.
Steve is the quickest H&C That I am aware of. I've never seen a definative post about that pass or if it was a stock bottom end. That 10.54 is actually what we are going for. Should be there by the end of the season. My boss gave me 5 grand the other day for parts, so I can finally get some of the weight down. Hoping to be around 3350lbs. If you give me the .29 I lost in just the first 60ft, it would have run at LEAST 10.7s that night. I don't know though, because that little tire was KILLING me at the top end. Watching a tach bounce around 7000 for 3 seconds is very painful
I guess I'm kinda partial because of what went down with Bret and Joe. Joe got me where I am, so I'm sticking with him. Tim Jewel runs a hyd roller alot like mine. His stock heads were ported by eric. I think he went 10.30 at over 130 with a stock bottom end.

Quickshotkimber

iTrader: (1)

I threw the flow sheet away a while ago. When I got them , I figured the car wouldn't go very fast because of what I had seen on the internet. The intake flowed 250 at .500 and carry that past .550. The exhaust is incredible and flows 198 at .550 with no pipe. The bench at that shop has been known to be on the conservative side. I have seen TEA , AFR, and LE LT1 heads flow at least 20cfm lower than advertised. TEA and LE were both at 255 cfm at .550. I think the most important detail is how much was removed to get the flow #s. Mine don't look like any that I have seen from my friends. My ports don't go through the rocker stud holes.
The cam is quite large. It's not just the duration that is important. The lobe profile and lobe seperation are critical. With a steep ramp and a hyd roller, the proper valvetrain and spring pressures are critical. Just because a spring is good to .600 lift doesn't mean it can handle an aggressive lobe that only opens to .550. It just means that it won't bind before.600.

SStrokerAce

iTrader: (2)

Actually mine were a little bit higher in price. I didn't undercut Joe. Lloyd came to me because Joe couldn't get him cams and Lloyd was hurting because he couldn't get his customers parts. That and now Lloyd has a lot of cams to choose from not just 3 standard grinds that Joe gave him..... But what do I know? I get the orders from Lloyd because I take him seriously, remember for me this isin't a ego contest it's a job.

Oh yeah and he's getting better power numbers and fatter TQ curves now, I have dyno charts to prove that too.... but Lloyd doesn't sponsor here and neither does Joe/EB so guess what... I'm not giving the post ****'s anything to bitch about.

I really wish it was all about ET's, but that's car setup. Not everyone has a Billingsley quality suspension setup and dialed in with a 3 speed auto and larger than average stall.... I'm personally more concerned about the average customer that Lloyd sees who wants a fast street car without spending a ton of coin. When someone wants to go racing then you take a different approach to that, plain and simple. The thinking that 1-2 combinations can serve everyone is silly.

BTW I have nothing against Joe, he's a good guy and has some fast cars out there... but what I can't handle is someone going around spreading BS about customers of mine I just had to tell the whole story here just so you know what really happened.

Bret