Ltx shootout.. Weight question
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From: Daytona Beach/chicago/south beach
I see alot of people making different suggestions and guys saying we will see how this year turns out and go from there.. There is over 4 months still left before the shootout. Why not get together in the next week or so and make few changes to get more people to come this year? I mean the more people come this year , the better it will be. I've read that as least 5-6 people can't come because of the rules. Why not change the outlaw class to whatever goes on suspension ? Leave the weight alone for turbo cars and lower the nitrous cars to 3000. This way alot more people can enter and there is only a 200 lbs difference in between nitrous and turbo cars. Then you can also limit people spraying 300 and if they spray more add 100 lbs per 50 hp or something like that. Its not to late to do this guys. I will fly out there also to see this, but i think it be more fun to see how crazy some people got with
lt1's and that's other people want to see. This is a suggestion and i think alot of people will agree with this. Don't wait till next year. Do it this year.
lt1's and that's other people want to see. This is a suggestion and i think alot of people will agree with this. Don't wait till next year. Do it this year.
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Joined: Oct 2007
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I had a cylinder head question pertaining the rules which pretty much got ignored. I know for a FACT at least 2 cars won't be going because they will be placed into the outlaw class, and they are N/A cars. The rule probably affects a number of cars too.
On The Tree
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From: Daytona Beach/chicago/south beach
See there you go. Tony make a thread about what people would like to add and then but a weight handicap or something but let these people run in a class that they have a chance . Add like 150 lbs if car has converted heads but wants to run in a n/a class. This way you will get alot more people to come and have alot more fun.
I see alot of people making different suggestions and guys saying we will see how this year turns out and go from there.. There is over 4 months still left before the shootout. Why not get together in the next week or so and make few changes to get more people to come this year? I mean the more people come this year , the better it will be. I've read that as least 5-6 people can't come because of the rules. Why not change the outlaw class to whatever goes on suspension ? Leave the weight alone for turbo cars and lower the nitrous cars to 3000. This way alot more people can enter and there is only a 200 lbs difference in between nitrous and turbo cars. Then you can also limit people spraying 300 and if they spray more add 100 lbs per 50 hp or something like that. Its not to late to do this guys. I will fly out there also to see this, but i think it be more fun to see how crazy some people got with
lt1's and that's other people want to see. This is a suggestion and i think alot of people will agree with this. Don't wait till next year. Do it this year.
lt1's and that's other people want to see. This is a suggestion and i think alot of people will agree with this. Don't wait till next year. Do it this year.
Part of the problem with that is with only 4 months if you shoot out a rule change people need to get there car set-up and tuned to make use of the change.
A limit on nitrous this late would really put some guys in a tight spot. Also it would very hard to enforce this rule, especially on the Direct port guys. Could you imagine checking 8 jets per car, and then how do you enforce this rule against the dual stage cars ect..
Rules are great but they need to be easily enforced or cheating will be ramapant.
I do agree that the current rule set keeps alot of the big guys outta show and that is unfortunate.
Also pertaining to your minimum weight. I think you would be very hard pressed to find a legal nitrous F-body that weighed in at 3,000 lbs. But I could be wrong. I know my car is no where near that.
Maybe they can get a couple of guys to gather some stats at this years race, like weights and such to help with setting the next year up.
Last edited by 95ttoplt1; Dec 28, 2007 at 09:44 PM. Reason: typos, typing one handed :(
On The Tree
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From: Daytona Beach/chicago/south beach
Part of the problem with that is with only 4 months if you shoot out a rule change people need to get there car set-up and tuned to make use of the change.
A limit on nitrous this late would really put some guys in a tight spot. Also it would very hard to enforce this rule, especially on the Direct port guys. Could you imagine checking 8 jets per car, and then how do you enforce this rule against the dual stage cars ect..
Rules are great but they need to be easily enforced or cheating will be ramapant.
I do agree that the current rule set keeps alot of the big guys outta show and that is unfortunate.
Also pertaining to your minimum weight. I think you would be very hard pressed to find a legal nitrous F-body that weighed in at 3,000 lbs. But I could be wrong. I know my car is no where near that.
Maybe they can get a couple of guys to gather some stats at this years race, like weights and such to help with setting the next year up.
A limit on nitrous this late would really put some guys in a tight spot. Also it would very hard to enforce this rule, especially on the Direct port guys. Could you imagine checking 8 jets per car, and then how do you enforce this rule against the dual stage cars ect..
Rules are great but they need to be easily enforced or cheating will be ramapant.
I do agree that the current rule set keeps alot of the big guys outta show and that is unfortunate.
Also pertaining to your minimum weight. I think you would be very hard pressed to find a legal nitrous F-body that weighed in at 3,000 lbs. But I could be wrong. I know my car is no where near that.
Maybe they can get a couple of guys to gather some stats at this years race, like weights and such to help with setting the next year up.
10 Second Club
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,630
Likes: 28
There are little things in the rules which don't make sense. I'll explain:
LT1 motor A: Runs AFR 180cc LT1 heads with a converted Victor EFI manifold/elbow and a big shot of nitrous. Allowed to run the power adder class.
LT1 motor B: Runs AFR 180cc SBC heads converted to LT1 cooling, with a Victor EFI manifold/elbow and a big shot of nitrous. NOT ALLOWED in power adder, strictly Outlaw class.
Which car would be faster? answer:they would be the same, there is no advantage to running a converted SBC head if you maintain the stock valve angle :wink: The rule should be ammended to DISALLOW NON-STOCK VALVE ANGLE SBC CONVERTED HEADS. 23 degree SBC heads are the same as 23 degree LT1 heads. The only difference is 1 small cooling passage and the manifold bolt pattern.
LT1 motor A: Runs AFR 180cc LT1 heads with a converted Victor EFI manifold/elbow and a big shot of nitrous. Allowed to run the power adder class.
LT1 motor B: Runs AFR 180cc SBC heads converted to LT1 cooling, with a Victor EFI manifold/elbow and a big shot of nitrous. NOT ALLOWED in power adder, strictly Outlaw class.
Which car would be faster? answer:they would be the same, there is no advantage to running a converted SBC head if you maintain the stock valve angle :wink: The rule should be ammended to DISALLOW NON-STOCK VALVE ANGLE SBC CONVERTED HEADS. 23 degree SBC heads are the same as 23 degree LT1 heads. The only difference is 1 small cooling passage and the manifold bolt pattern.
There are little things in the rules which don't make sense. I'll explain:
LT1 motor A: Runs AFR 180cc LT1 heads with a converted Victor EFI manifold/elbow and a big shot of nitrous. Allowed to run the power adder class.
LT1 motor B: Runs AFR 180cc SBC heads converted to LT1 cooling, with a Victor EFI manifold/elbow and a big shot of nitrous. NOT ALLOWED in power adder, strictly Outlaw class.
Which car would be faster? answer:they would be the same, there is no advantage to running a converted SBC head if you maintain the stock valve angle :wink: The rule should be ammended to DISALLOW NON-STOCK VALVE ANGLE SBC CONVERTED HEADS. 23 degree SBC heads are the same as 23 degree LT1 heads. The only difference is 1 small cooling passage and the manifold bolt pattern.
LT1 motor A: Runs AFR 180cc LT1 heads with a converted Victor EFI manifold/elbow and a big shot of nitrous. Allowed to run the power adder class.
LT1 motor B: Runs AFR 180cc SBC heads converted to LT1 cooling, with a Victor EFI manifold/elbow and a big shot of nitrous. NOT ALLOWED in power adder, strictly Outlaw class.
Which car would be faster? answer:they would be the same, there is no advantage to running a converted SBC head if you maintain the stock valve angle :wink: The rule should be ammended to DISALLOW NON-STOCK VALVE ANGLE SBC CONVERTED HEADS. 23 degree SBC heads are the same as 23 degree LT1 heads. The only difference is 1 small cooling passage and the manifold bolt pattern.
yes and no, there needs to be a better defintion than converted and LT1.
I am one with converted 23 degree heads. They are All-pros that have been converted, but they are right along the lines of an AFR 215 RR, the ones you can't get from AFR as an LT1 anymore. But if you got them before they stopped making them your good, if you got a set now and converted you'd be screwed.
I think stock valve angle heads should be allowed and non-stock to the outlaw class. Anyone with 215's could hang with my converted heads, but we would both be way behind a SB2.2 car.
I think way too much emphasis has been put on the converted intake piece as well. I think the line should be at sheetmetal intakes. I mean you lumping the guys with homemade conversions in with guys like Ed Wright who have a $2600 hogan intake.
I agree with having lines and definitions set but it sounds like maybe the knowlege pool wasn't as broad as it needed to be. Not saying I have all the answers, I think the guys putting the show on have a good start and will have a great event and I'm trying my damnest to get there, even though I will be really out gunned in the outlaw class.
Last edited by 95ttoplt1; Dec 29, 2007 at 12:03 AM. Reason: typo's thanks for reading though,those that did
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From: windsor, ont. canada - Home of the fastest LT1 6spd.
there is currently allowance for a sheetmetal intake, WITH 100lb penalty.
i personally have no issue with converted heads, but for sake of conversation, a brodix, or all pro would out flow set of afr227's all day long..no???? just my understanding. i have thought of going that route as well.....but i already have a large chunk of change into my top end. my heads don't flow more than 310 cfm at 700.
also as far as a pump gas or what i would like to see is a drive it class, like a 30 mile cruise, into the lanes and then 2 qualifiers and run off the top 16. that would be a dream come true for me! monitoring fuel is way too much to try to deal with. there have been people caught doing some sneaky stuff at the PGD events. if someone wants to burn 110 race fuel, then power to them. i would honestly prefer pump gas, as i believe it levels the playing field some more, because you have real street cars going at it.
i think the event does have plenty of classes this year. it is a learning experience for sure!
i personally have no issue with converted heads, but for sake of conversation, a brodix, or all pro would out flow set of afr227's all day long..no???? just my understanding. i have thought of going that route as well.....but i already have a large chunk of change into my top end. my heads don't flow more than 310 cfm at 700.
also as far as a pump gas or what i would like to see is a drive it class, like a 30 mile cruise, into the lanes and then 2 qualifiers and run off the top 16. that would be a dream come true for me! monitoring fuel is way too much to try to deal with. there have been people caught doing some sneaky stuff at the PGD events. if someone wants to burn 110 race fuel, then power to them. i would honestly prefer pump gas, as i believe it levels the playing field some more, because you have real street cars going at it.
i think the event does have plenty of classes this year. it is a learning experience for sure!
Last edited by taner; Dec 28, 2007 at 11:46 PM.
there is currently allowance for a sheetmetal intake, WITH 100lb penalty.
i personally have no issue with converted heads, but for sake of conversation, a brodix, or all pro would out flow set of afr227's all day long..no???? just my understanding. i have thought of going that route as well.....but i already have a large chunk of change into my top end. my heads don't flow more than 310 cfm at 700.
also as far as a pump gas or what i would like to see is a drive it class, like a 30 mile cruise, into the lanes and then 2 qualifiers and run off the top 16. that would be a dream come true for me! monitoring fuel is way too much to try to deal with. there have been people caught doing some sneaky stuff at the PGD events. if someone wants to burn 110 race fuel, then power to them. i would honestly prefer pump gas, as i believe it levels the playing field some more, because you have real street cars going at it.
i think the event does have plenty of classes this year. it is a learning experience for sure!
i personally have no issue with converted heads, but for sake of conversation, a brodix, or all pro would out flow set of afr227's all day long..no???? just my understanding. i have thought of going that route as well.....but i already have a large chunk of change into my top end. my heads don't flow more than 310 cfm at 700.
also as far as a pump gas or what i would like to see is a drive it class, like a 30 mile cruise, into the lanes and then 2 qualifiers and run off the top 16. that would be a dream come true for me! monitoring fuel is way too much to try to deal with. there have been people caught doing some sneaky stuff at the PGD events. if someone wants to burn 110 race fuel, then power to them. i would honestly prefer pump gas, as i believe it levels the playing field some more, because you have real street cars going at it.
i think the event does have plenty of classes this year. it is a learning experience for sure!
Do you have a chip in my head??
That is exactley what I was thinking. A cruise and then pull into the lanes and qualify. There will always be cheaters, the joy comes from beating them and following the rules 
You could even have the cars start at a designated spot and stage them there and just release a pair at a time about a minute apart so you would just roll into the track, burn out, stage and run. Might be too much hassle but would be cool if you could pull it off. And could you imagine the tension driving to the track
A small issue for the big boosted street cars and huge shot cars would be supplemental fuel in the standalone. But if its straight pump gas them some more tuning would just be in order I guess.
AFAIK my heads would be right on par with a comparably ported set of AFR 215 RR, which are made specific for the LT1. The AFR 215's will out flow the 227's and make more power. Maybe a weight penalty for raised runner heads would be in order? Just speaking from my small knowledge base here, my heads were originally 227cc as cast, and after CNC porting they are around 245cc. When talking to AFR(as I was going to get 215RR) they start out at more than 215cc and after the AFR port job are approximatley 245cc. I went with the All-Pro simply becuse I could get them right away and found a good deal on them already ported. But both the 215rr will out produce a 227cc IMO, but neither would hang with a proper 18 degree or SB2.2 which they are lumped in with now.
Just some ideas. I'm really excited about a pump gas class though.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....8&postcount=81
I don't know Ed. Did I miss understand this post??
He no longer uses that intake since he switched to NHRA super stock rules. Guys this event is meant to be a good time for us LT1 guys to get together at. If all races were designed to be fair for everyone and so everyone had a chance to win that would be great. Oh wait, thats bracket racing. Im going to the event, not going to win. Just gonna run my car in the class it fits best in (heads up n/a) even tho Ill get outrun.
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From: LT1 land...the "409" of the 90s!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....8&postcount=81
I don't know Ed. Did I miss understand this post??
I don't know Ed. Did I miss understand this post??
BTW MY hogans was Quite a bit more then that new
I just need to build the engine to put it on It will bump me to the big boys class when I do. So be it some one is always faster
I wasn't singling Ed out ,I was just using him an as example. I think Ed's car is dope and I'd love to get smoked in the lane running next to him
Since we are all making suggestions on what to do for next year, can we maybe make the shootout the second week in may? It's shitty b/c I just started grad school and will have finals consistently for the next four years the week after the shootout on the current date. If we could get a date between may 10 and august 4th I will definitely be attending. Dont know if that is possible, but keep me in mind 
4 months should be plenty of time to study ahead so you can take off that week.
10 Second Club
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 132
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From: Davie, FL
More power to you man, It takes me a good 8 hrs more to get there than you though, that's 16hrs both ways. A whole extra day of driving to get there, and missing out on time to study. We'll see as the time gets closer, if I'm pulling good grades maybe I'll make it out.
More power to you man, It takes me a good 8 hrs more to get there than you though, that's 16hrs both ways. A whole extra day of driving to get there, and missing out on time to study. We'll see as the time gets closer, if I'm pulling good grades maybe I'll make it out.
I would drive and have the wife ask me emergency procedures and such going down the road. Just a thought
10 Second Club
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 132
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From: Davie, FL
Well see though, if I keep my grades up like I did this semester I just have to show up to the finals and get 15% to pass my classes. 