Vicious95Z28

iTrader: (1)

I didn't imply that it would be broken all of the time, I simply made it clear that HE doesn't want it to be broken all of the time. He didn't mention anything about straying too far from the stock bottom end so he doesn't need a 6800 rpm screamer.

Also, real impressive dyno #'s and not so impressive track #'s doesn't mean that Lloyd's stuff is junk, seems like it's killing you not to say that it is. Just FWIW I can stuff any good dyno producing combo in a car/truck and if the vehicle itself isn't dialed in correctly it's not going to produce a good time. Dyno's don't read a vehicle setup, the track does, that's why there are some simple bolt on cars that do very well at the track and some more serious H/C CARS THAT DON'T. It's more about over all setup that about the product that any particular individual produces.

Low 12's or high 11's can be done with a well set up cam only car. You guys really need to lay off of the LE/BRE camp, your reputation is beginning to sicken a lot of people around here. I'm one of them. I've been around these forums for quite a while now and haven't engaged in the urinating matches but this nonsense is getting old.

You seem to be very high up on the AI stuff, I'm not saying that they don't have good stuff I'm sure it works well. I will say this though, there are some folks around here that may be considering AI but the attitudes that a lot of there "FOLLOWERS" are carrying may actually compell some potential customers to buy elsewhere.

James

SS MPSTR

iTrader: (1)

If anyone lets the percieved attitudes of some here influence such a major purchase, well, then I don't know what to tell you. 'Good luck' comes to mind.

exodus

iTrader: (15)

Let's shift this around just a tad...

1.What H/C/I setups are you useing?
2.Are you happy with it?
3.How often do you drive your car?
4.What would you have done differently?

Pics don't hurt either

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

AI 190cc and street ported intake, cam is similar to the one you picked on their site.

Quite happy.

Put about 8K miles a year on it each of the two years it has been together in this form.

Not much I would change other than I bought just a few months before they came out with the 200cc version which I would like to try.

I expected low rpm loses but did not experiance them still the cam is the right size because I really would not want to rev it higher, with this setup I am able to keep it below 6500rpms.

Mailorder tune, midlength headers, stock waterpump, just a well thought out but fairly basic setup. Running stock timing set, stock lifters, stock oilpump with a higher pressure spring($2), stock damper, stock oilpan.

Here are the headers I have used with this setup, the upper one is what was on it for my 11 second passes which are done 150 miles from home, fastest pass was through mufflers too.



Both sets are 1 5/8 primaries.
Going to try some long tubes this year see if it helps.

exodus

iTrader: (15)

car has 1 3/4" long tubes now I believe, and there is a cam in it, but do not know which is in there.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

This is what you stated:
The pretty much looks like you were implying it would be BROKE ALL THE TIME.
You are certain of the power range of the cams suggested?
Normally I would agree, however, there aren't a whole lot of LE1 setups that can support your theory and that has been proven time and time and time again by all these 370plus rwhp cars w/ the LE1 stuff that run horribly.
If that's the case then there are A LOT of LE setups that could use your help. In all actually it sounds like a pile of excuses that I never heard or read back in the '90's and early 2000's with other reputable heads/cam packages that were backing up their dyno numbers on the track. What in the world do you mean by "dialed in?" What it boils down to is there are a lot of dynos out there where the owners/operators don't know how or don't give two ***** about it being calibrated. They produce big numbers so they get more people on them to get those imaginary numbers. A chassis dynamometer can be one of the most lucrative instruments at any shop and can pay for itself in a matter of a few short years if you keep the cars rolling in. "Dialed in"??? These aren't Pro Stock cars here. There have been countless heads/cam cars with virtually stock suspension running low 11's. Hell my 370rwhp LPE package had SLP Level II susp which in itself is stiff as all hell with no weight transfer and was running 1.7x 60' times w/ BFG DR's and ET Streets. Here I am going off on this when I really don't have a clue what you mean by "dialed in?" If a car runs 370rwhp on a dyno then it should produce GOOD numbers on the track. The only reason why it wouldn't is if the driver sucked or if the susp. was not "dialed in." Seriously what you're claiming about being "dialed in" is a bunch of hog wash. Even if a car is not "dialed in" on the track it should STILL produce mph unless a driver is a complete tool and cannot control their own vehicle? I can't imagine every LE1 setup I've read about or seen results in a sig has a driver like that? Maybe they do? Perhaps you can answer that question better than I can.
It sure can! What's your point?
Are you saying I should've been much faster w/ what I had going even though it was through full exhaust and full weight? Are there any BRE cam only cars out there in the low 12's/high 11's? Help me out here.
The fact of the matter is LE/BRE ET's/MPH speak for themselves no matter how you want to sugar coat them.
If you look again I suggested LINGENFELTER. Please re-read.
You sure do have a lot of info.
I find it rather amusing you get bent this quick and start in on the AI/LE crap when all I stated is that I haven't seen good track times from the LE1 setups and never suggested an AI setup. I was stating my opinion. Go back and re-read. Is that not allowed? Now really.. rethink your strategy and ask yourself who is the FOLLOWER. Seems FOLLOWERS aren't happy and have to complain if there isn't a unanimous verdict for LE setups in any thread.
So basically here's my opinion (Are you ready for it or are you going to get more upset?)-
Hands down I fully believe the 211/219 heads/cam Lingenfelter combo is far superior to any LE/BRE setup. My own experiences and from what I've read/seen in the past several years convinces me of this (sans maybe two impressive LE/BRE cars). Even though Craig Gallant has gotten some bad press in the last few years I'd buy his heads w/out hesitation over LE because he has been known to produce results in several Mustangs and f-bodys over the years. I have seen and installed quite a few of his heads and the quality of his hand porting trounces LE bar none. I have not seen many results of AI setups, but from what I have seen I would trust their quality, workmanship and customer service over LE or BRE for that matter. I have never seen a pair of heads from AI or Lingenfelter that looks like a $50 dremel had been handed to a cerebral palsy patient as I have seen photo proof from LE. I like to deal with shops that actually have a physical address and don't cloud their mystical "wizardry" in obscurity.
As far as you being the spokesperson for "some folks" who are deciding what setup to go with on pure emotion... I don't believe you and think this is some sort of control tactic to get those who do not approve of LE/BRE to refrain from expressing their opinion.

METALBEAST

iTrader: (1)

Then just answer me this one simple question...Why do you and a few others feel its YOUR duty to not recommend a certain H/C company but to BASH EVERYTHING LE (BTW, love your clever sig there You know you can still catch reruns of 90210 on the Soap channel every Sunday night at 9.) ? Its one thing to recommend a certain product you have experience with. Its just flat out childish to bash for no apparent reason.

SS MPSTR

iTrader: (1)

Pot, meet Kettle.

METALBEAST

iTrader: (1)

Show me one post where I bash AI.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

There is plenty of apparent reason and I document exactly why.
Regarding the big font of my response it also looks like you have selective reading. Please read the very next sentence which states why I feel the way I do. Again... it seems that if there isn't a unanimous vote on LE products with these types of threads there is lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth from the LE croud. I am merely expressing my opinion from what I've seen, witnessed, experienced and read.

Show me one post where you haven't bashed another member for having a difference of opinion regarding heads/cam setups. I guess yours and my definition of "childish" differs greatly.

ryanmh1

Not a lot of mention seems to be made of them in the LT1 arena, but TEA has some CNC heads with very, very nice numbers and what looks like a good parts list for only $1369.00 .. Little cheaper than Ai even after you factor in the cam, and the flow numbers are slightly better, although probably within the margin of testing error. Their TFS 200cc heads aren't exactly cheap, but again are cheaper than Ai's and outflow them. (NB: Exhaust numbers are not comparable due to differences in testing methodology: Pipe vs no pipe).

As for cam, I think 230 on the intake is probably a bit large. I think 224/230 would be a sweet spot for a daily driver, on the high end. If you want the lopey idle, shrink the duration and go with a 110lsa or less.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

A word of caution... depending on what setup you go with your gearing may have to change to get the best results. One example is that the 3.73 gear for a mild heads/cam combo may be too much and you may end up gonig past your power band in the 1/4mi. Just a thought...

METALBEAST

iTrader: (1)

I can give you about 2900 & some change.

SS MPSTR

iTrader: (1)

I wasn't specifically referring to AI - your criticism of SS RRR's comments is as unfounded as you accuse his criticism of LE to be. Both shops have results, and like mentioned earlier, they speak for themselves. Since we're asking simple questions, who appointed you protector of all things LE/Bert?

Since the subject of this thread is H/C/I set-ups, why don't you offer something besides a lame defense? SS RRR and ABA383 run Lingenfelter, me and 96capricemgr run AI - what's yours? These threads turn into sandy vagina bitch sessions from people who passionately and blindly defend something to a fault, while losing any objectivity, and ultimately get locked.

And to answer your question - anyone on here can recommend or not recommend a shop for various reasons, and neither position requires you to have had the product on your car. The internet lives on heresay, and no amount of 'gauntleteering' is going to change that. I've seen Berts cams, and no thanks - I'll take the proven shelf grind everytime over one of his 'custom' sledgehammer lobes. I've seen LE heads, and again, while some guys may get it to work for them, I'll take working with who I'm comfortable with and who has consistently proven results. The LE heads just do not seem as detail-oriented to me - does it mean a hill of beans in the way my car runs if I were to change them? Who knows? It does to the guy paying the bill, and that is all that matters as far as I'm concerned.

What I do find very interesting, is that Lingenfelter and others have found ways to make very fast cars without resorting to large punishing cams, that seemingly have some longevity. Something to think about from some of the guys we've found who have credible performance resumes a mile long, and an equal list of performing cars.

SS RRR

iTrader: (2)

2900 of your posts were spent in heads/cam setup threads? I think you need to re-read what I said. Regardless it appears you really have no room to criticize anything I've posted thus far.

Vendetta

Let's calm it down a bit in here guys.