clutch issues
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TECH Addict
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,099
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From: Texas/Afghanistan
clutch issues ok just had a spec stage 1 installed by a local tranny shop. they are supposed to be a great shop and only deal with trans work. so i take my car in around 11 am and got it back at 6 pm. paid 600 bux for a clutch install and flywheel resurface. i think i got screwed but whatever. the real problem comes when i go to drive it and it will BARELY go into 1st from a dead stop and i have to pray to the car gods for ten minutes and sacrifice a virgin before it will go into reverse. ANNNDDD when i am coasting with it in gear(any gear), with the clutch pushed in there is this TERRIBLE shudder coming from the trans, i can feel it in the stick and the clutch peddle.
could it be they just didn't adjust for the new clutch? or didnt lbeed the system correctly?? or did they not tighten a bolt somewhwere??? or did they misalign something????? improper bearing installation?????? HELP????????
BTW car is a cammed 2000 ss m6, @ 54k on the clock. 47 of which were drivin by an old man. and u can guess how the last 7k were drivin.
could it be they just didn't adjust for the new clutch? or didnt lbeed the system correctly?? or did they not tighten a bolt somewhwere??? or did they misalign something????? improper bearing installation?????? HELP????????
BTW car is a cammed 2000 ss m6, @ 54k on the clock. 47 of which were drivin by an old man. and u can guess how the last 7k were drivin.
Brian, I hate to hear of your issues but I am happy to assist you with tech-support and trouble shooting. Where does the clutch release relative to pedal travel? Is the pedal effort/pressure consistent? Let me know a bit more about this so I can better understand the occurance.
As for the vibration you mention, if it occurs when coasting only, with the pedal depressed and thus the clutch released It could be a fews things. The first is relative to the TOB which is a self-centering unit. If the bearing is simply not centered it could lead to a bit of a wobble that may be felt through the pedal. This could also result from a lose pressure-plate to flywheel bolt or crank bolt. Lose bolts could also affect release which would tie into your issues with actuation as well. Of course it would be easier to assess if I could see the car. Let me know if you have any further questions. Thanks,
As for the vibration you mention, if it occurs when coasting only, with the pedal depressed and thus the clutch released It could be a fews things. The first is relative to the TOB which is a self-centering unit. If the bearing is simply not centered it could lead to a bit of a wobble that may be felt through the pedal. This could also result from a lose pressure-plate to flywheel bolt or crank bolt. Lose bolts could also affect release which would tie into your issues with actuation as well. Of course it would be easier to assess if I could see the car. Let me know if you have any further questions. Thanks,
Thread Starter
TECH Addict
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,099
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From: Texas/Afghanistan
well when i have the pedal fully pressed to the floor, put the car in gear, as soon as i let off the pedal at all the car starts to move. so there is no dead space at all in the pedal. also the first half of the pedal travel is very easy, the second half becomes quite a bit more stiff.
let me ask, if the system was not bled properly, and there is an air bubble, would that cause it to not release the clutch all the way? and if the clutch doesn't fully release all the way could this account for the vibrations felt when coasting with the pedal depressed?
i am taking the car back today, hopefully they will fix it no questions asked. if not then screw them i will figure this out and fix it myself.
let me ask, if the system was not bled properly, and there is an air bubble, would that cause it to not release the clutch all the way? and if the clutch doesn't fully release all the way could this account for the vibrations felt when coasting with the pedal depressed?
i am taking the car back today, hopefully they will fix it no questions asked. if not then screw them i will figure this out and fix it myself.
An air bubble could cause the pedal to be low and if the clutch weren't fully releasing then it could lead to shudder (chatter) as the disc scuffs the face of the plate and the flywheel. The fact that the pedal has inconsistent pressure could certainly evidence air in the system. The easiest thing to do is have them bleed the system again (I suggest the use of a Mighty-Vac) and re-assess the situation again. Let me know what you find and I will be happy to assist you further. Thanks,
Thread Starter
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Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Texas/Afghanistan
well went to the shop and they said they don't mess with hydraulic systems so they couldn't bleed it for me. they also said that it shouldn't need to be bled since nothing got tampered with. they said that the clutch it self was the problem and that it was basically my fault for buying an after market clutch. sooooo im pretty much s.o.l. and on my own according to them.
then went to the nearest GM dealership to talk to a tech, they said the same about the bleeding that its a closed system that doesnt need to be touched just for a clutch change. they said that it sounds like the input shaft is wiggling(which my cam lope doesnt help i'm sure)and that i am losing clutch travel somewhere, they suggested that its maybe because the new clutch disc was too thick and once it had material worn off that the problem MIGHT go away.
so IF its not an air bubble, then i am losing travel somewhwere...but where? clutch fork? TOB?
then went to the nearest GM dealership to talk to a tech, they said the same about the bleeding that its a closed system that doesnt need to be touched just for a clutch change. they said that it sounds like the input shaft is wiggling(which my cam lope doesnt help i'm sure)and that i am losing clutch travel somewhere, they suggested that its maybe because the new clutch disc was too thick and once it had material worn off that the problem MIGHT go away.
so IF its not an air bubble, then i am losing travel somewhwere...but where? clutch fork? TOB?
When you resurface a flywheel the air gap from the slave and PP fingers get farther apart. It sounds to me that the clutch probly needs the shim that SPEC ussually supply's with the clutch assembly.
To test the hydrolics just pump the peddle about 10 times and see if it goes into gear easier.
Where do you live?
To test the hydrolics just pump the peddle about 10 times and see if it goes into gear easier.
Where do you live?
Trending Topics
did the shop use the supplied spec shim? do you know how much the flywheel was cut?
if the clutch disengaging all the way? on level ground, stick in 1st, rev to 4500-5000rpms. does the car move foward a bit?
can you smoothly shift gears with engine off?
if the clutch disengaging all the way? on level ground, stick in 1st, rev to 4500-5000rpms. does the car move foward a bit?
can you smoothly shift gears with engine off?
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Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Texas/Afghanistan
i believe they did not use the supplied shim, would it make that much difference? they were only supposed to take a very small amount off the fly wheel.
pumping the pedal does no good. but pushing it to the floor as hard as i possibly can is the only way i can get it into reverse.
and when i rev it up i have to do the same to the pedal, push it to the floor as hard as i can or the car will move up slightly.
also it will go in/out of gear with the engine off perfectly.
pumping the pedal does no good. but pushing it to the floor as hard as i possibly can is the only way i can get it into reverse.
and when i rev it up i have to do the same to the pedal, push it to the floor as hard as i can or the car will move up slightly.
also it will go in/out of gear with the engine off perfectly.
i believe they did not use the supplied shim, would it make that much difference? they were only supposed to take a very small amount off the fly wheel.
pumping the pedal does no good. but pushing it to the floor as hard as i possibly can is the only way i can get it into reverse.
and when i rev it up i have to do the same to the pedal, push it to the floor as hard as i can or the car will move up slightly.
also it will go in/out of gear with the engine off perfectly.
pumping the pedal does no good. but pushing it to the floor as hard as i possibly can is the only way i can get it into reverse.
and when i rev it up i have to do the same to the pedal, push it to the floor as hard as i can or the car will move up slightly.
also it will go in/out of gear with the engine off perfectly.
If engagement is on the floor and the shim wasn't used then I think you have likely found your cause. It's unfortunate that your shop isn't able to assist you with bleeding. It's also interesting that they, and the GM dealer, don't understand the need for bleeding the hydraulics. Though these cars are equipped with a "self-adjusting" bearing and slave that should adapt to the depth of the clutch they often need bleeding (as evidenced by many posts on this forum). If you don't have the supplied shim anymore than call me and I will be happy to help you get one heading that way. I am doubtful that this is a disc thickness issue as we test every unit for appropriate thickness and actuation (as well as many other factors) before leaving. Let me know if you have any further questions. Thanks,
spec clutch just installed a Spec 3 clutch today, works beautiful, really delivers the 450 crank horsepower down to the ground. went with aluminum flywheel and lightweight pressure plate. mechanic suggested that the shim was to be used when turning down the pressure plate. Spec gives clear instructions on the set-up with the clutch assembly. good luck, I think you have found your problem.
Thread Starter
TECH Addict
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,099
Likes: 3
From: Texas/Afghanistan
thanks for the help guys, i am almost positive they didn't use the shim and if the instructions in the box say to then i am pretty sure i can get them to fix it. and if not i will raise hell till they do.
Jeremy i will definitely give a call if they lost the shim.
Jeremy i will definitely give a call if they lost the shim.
what kind of shop is this man??
600 bucks and they dont deal with bleeding hydrolics?
f- that.
sounds to me like they forgot to use a shim. or u need a bigger shim because of resurfacing
but bleeding it wouldnt be a bad idea before u tear the hole thing down again...
600 bucks and they dont deal with bleeding hydrolics?
f- that.
sounds to me like they forgot to use a shim. or u need a bigger shim because of resurfacing
but bleeding it wouldnt be a bad idea before u tear the hole thing down again...
well went to the shop and they said they don't mess with hydraulic systems so they couldn't bleed it for me. they also said that it shouldn't need to be bled since nothing got tampered with. they said that the clutch it self was the problem and that it was basically my fault for buying an after market clutch. sooooo im pretty much s.o.l. and on my own according to them.
then went to the nearest GM dealership to talk to a tech, they said the same about the bleeding that its a closed system that doesnt need to be touched just for a clutch change. they said that it sounds like the input shaft is wiggling(which my cam lope doesnt help i'm sure)and that i am losing clutch travel somewhere, they suggested that its maybe because the new clutch disc was too thick and once it had material worn off that the problem MIGHT go away.
so IF its not an air bubble, then i am losing travel somewhwere...but where? clutch fork? TOB?
then went to the nearest GM dealership to talk to a tech, they said the same about the bleeding that its a closed system that doesnt need to be touched just for a clutch change. they said that it sounds like the input shaft is wiggling(which my cam lope doesnt help i'm sure)and that i am losing clutch travel somewhere, they suggested that its maybe because the new clutch disc was too thick and once it had material worn off that the problem MIGHT go away.
so IF its not an air bubble, then i am losing travel somewhwere...but where? clutch fork? TOB?
1st of all, IT REQUIRES BLEEDING!!!
2nd, if this shop specializes in trannies, and they don't know that, then they DON'T specialize in trannies.
3rd, i fyou took to GM and they told you this, you either did not give them the correct details, OR, they need to be closed down, good grief.
Now, your problem.
I would start out with bleeding. Also, since your bafoon joke of a shop turned your flywheel, I would have serious doubts about how "true" it is. So, you may have a problem there. Also, since they obvously have no clue what is going on, it is safe to assume, they did not measure for a shim either. Not to mention $600 for a clutch swap. Good god, where do these people come from and how do they stay in business????
I am sorry to rant like this, and I am NOT one to dog on a shop, but this is pure insanity. To charge you that much money, and not even know how to bleed hydraulics I am really scratching my head on this, and really feel like I am in teh twilight zone.
So, again, start with bleeding it, as it DOES require bleeding.
If once you have done that, and you still have problems. Then the flywheel and teh need for shim would be next on teh "to do" list.
Let us know
To be honest with you, at this point, would NOT take your car back there to have them work on it. Not saying you should not go back there, to get some type of refund, but there is no way in hell I would have them touch my car. I understand the need to have your car fixed and all, but maybe you have some friends with some basic hand tools/tech know how, that can help you out????
Something really may be amiss with the install...of course I don't know the shop or the people that work their...and thusly I don't think it's necessarily prudent for me to call them out. I am happy to talk with them if you like and will do whatever I can to assist you with this. Thanks and keep me posted!
Thread Starter
TECH Addict
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,099
Likes: 3
From: Texas/Afghanistan
ok so i called them today and they swear they installed the shim, i guess it has to be bled. the problem is finding a shop i can trust, any suggestions?
btw i just started getting into manual trans cars. up until a few years ago we didn't have any, now we have 3 camaros and they are all standard lol. and so far this is the first problem we've had with one. so needless to say i'm still learning.
btw i just started getting into manual trans cars. up until a few years ago we didn't have any, now we have 3 camaros and they are all standard lol. and so far this is the first problem we've had with one. so needless to say i'm still learning.
In truth I think you could handle the bleed on your own...with a little help from a mighty-vac and a friend. There are numerous write-ups about this online...so I suggest doing a search and deciding if you are comfortable doing it on your own. If you can let me know where you are located I will be happy to provide info on our dealer nearest you. Thanks!
