Minimum Wage Throwdown Thread for IL...
12-02-2006, 08:56 AM
#2
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Why not have everybody make 22.50 an hour? Isn't this a fair living wage? The only reason politicians make these kind of asinine proposals is because they don't have to pay for it. No accountability. If a business can't hire people for 6.50 they will pay more until they get their hires. No one in this country should be able to dictate what a person should pay his employees. The word is dictate as in dictatorship. What a bunch of shitbags these guys are. Theyr'e going to put alot of people out of work or not into work. One of the two. There's my rant!
12-02-2006, 10:02 AM
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There isnt anything wrong with paying people more money there is only one socio-economic class in this country that is growing and thats the lower class. Big business is killing this country the upper class continue to amass more wealth and the difference between classes is growing this is bad and will continue to get worse. Dont get me wrong Im not a socialist and believe in a free economy but the upper class have control of the government and over 90% of the nations wealth. The cost of living has exponentially risen over the past 30 years thats why in the 60's you could get by working one lower wage job and live today its impossible to live with the same standards as 40 years ago only working one low wage job.
Poverty breeds crime mark my words the more money the lower and middle classes make the better society is regardless of education level everyone has to live.
Poverty breeds crime mark my words the more money the lower and middle classes make the better society is regardless of education level everyone has to live.
12-02-2006, 11:27 AM
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I was very disappointed to see our current IL Governor re-elected, and this is one reason why.
I do not support any increase in minimum wage. Busniesses won't absorb the cost, they will pass it on to the consumer. It's the middle class that really pays for it, and the lower class doesn't really benefit anything anyway. Here's why:
- Lower class makes more money (minimum wage increase). Business raises prices to pay for the wage increase. In the end, low class ends up with the same amount of cash in their pockets because they are paying back their wage increase in the form of higher priced goods and services. Nothing gained, nothing lost.
- Middle class now pays more for the cost of basic goods/services, thus helping to finance the minimum wage increase. However they do not have an increase in wages to compensate (like the low class). In the end, the middle class has less money in their pockets because they are paying out more without a take-home pay increase. Loss of wealth for us.
- Upper class will now also pay more for the costs of basic goods and services, but it's a non-issue really, because these are the leaders/owners of industry. The increased cost will be marginal in their budgets compared to the middle class. They are the ones taking a hit from the bottom line because they are paying higher wages to the lower class, but at the same time they are making more money due to the increase in the cost of their goods. In essence, they are breaking even. Nothing gained, nothing lost.
Overall, the middle class takes the biggest hit.
I do not support any increase in minimum wage. Busniesses won't absorb the cost, they will pass it on to the consumer. It's the middle class that really pays for it, and the lower class doesn't really benefit anything anyway. Here's why:
- Lower class makes more money (minimum wage increase). Business raises prices to pay for the wage increase. In the end, low class ends up with the same amount of cash in their pockets because they are paying back their wage increase in the form of higher priced goods and services. Nothing gained, nothing lost.
- Middle class now pays more for the cost of basic goods/services, thus helping to finance the minimum wage increase. However they do not have an increase in wages to compensate (like the low class). In the end, the middle class has less money in their pockets because they are paying out more without a take-home pay increase. Loss of wealth for us.
- Upper class will now also pay more for the costs of basic goods and services, but it's a non-issue really, because these are the leaders/owners of industry. The increased cost will be marginal in their budgets compared to the middle class. They are the ones taking a hit from the bottom line because they are paying higher wages to the lower class, but at the same time they are making more money due to the increase in the cost of their goods. In essence, they are breaking even. Nothing gained, nothing lost.
Overall, the middle class takes the biggest hit.
12-02-2006, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RPM WS6
I was very disappointed to see our current IL Governor re-elected, and this is one reason why.
I do not support any increase in minimum wage. Busniesses won't absorb the cost, they will pass it on to the consumer. It's the middle class that really pays for it, and the lower class doesn't really benefit anything anyway. Here's why:
- Lower class makes more money (minimum wage increase). Business raises prices to pay for the wage increase. In the end, low class ends up with the same amount of cash in their pockets because they are paying back their wage increase in the form of higher priced goods and services. Nothing gained, nothing lost.
- Middle class now pays more for the cost of basic goods/services, thus helping to finance the minimum wage increase. However they do not have an increase in wages to compensate (like the low class). In the end, the middle class has less money in their pockets because they are paying out more without a take-home pay increase. Loss of wealth for us.
- Upper class will now also pay more for the costs of basic goods and services, but it's a non-issue really, because these are the leaders/owners of industry. The increased cost will be marginal in their budgets compared to the middle class. They are the ones taking a hit from the bottom line because they are paying higher wages to the lower class, but at the same time they are making more money due to the increase in the cost of their goods. In essence, they are breaking even. Nothing gained, nothing lost.
Overall, the middle class takes the biggest hit.
I do not support any increase in minimum wage. Busniesses won't absorb the cost, they will pass it on to the consumer. It's the middle class that really pays for it, and the lower class doesn't really benefit anything anyway. Here's why:
- Lower class makes more money (minimum wage increase). Business raises prices to pay for the wage increase. In the end, low class ends up with the same amount of cash in their pockets because they are paying back their wage increase in the form of higher priced goods and services. Nothing gained, nothing lost.
- Middle class now pays more for the cost of basic goods/services, thus helping to finance the minimum wage increase. However they do not have an increase in wages to compensate (like the low class). In the end, the middle class has less money in their pockets because they are paying out more without a take-home pay increase. Loss of wealth for us.
- Upper class will now also pay more for the costs of basic goods and services, but it's a non-issue really, because these are the leaders/owners of industry. The increased cost will be marginal in their budgets compared to the middle class. They are the ones taking a hit from the bottom line because they are paying higher wages to the lower class, but at the same time they are making more money due to the increase in the cost of their goods. In essence, they are breaking even. Nothing gained, nothing lost.
Overall, the middle class takes the biggest hit.
Basically middle class cant win until they move up to become the upper class....
12-02-2006, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by RPM WS6
I was very disappointed to see our current IL Governor re-elected, and this is one reason why.
I do not support any increase in minimum wage. Busniesses won't absorb the cost, they will pass it on to the consumer. It's the middle class that really pays for it, and the lower class doesn't really benefit anything anyway. Here's why:
- Lower class makes more money (minimum wage increase). Business raises prices to pay for the wage increase. In the end, low class ends up with the same amount of cash in their pockets because they are paying back their wage increase in the form of higher priced goods and services. Nothing gained, nothing lost.
- Middle class now pays more for the cost of basic goods/services, thus helping to finance the minimum wage increase. However they do not have an increase in wages to compensate (like the low class). In the end, the middle class has less money in their pockets because they are paying out more without a take-home pay increase. Loss of wealth for us.
- Upper class will now also pay more for the costs of basic goods and services, but it's a non-issue really, because these are the leaders/owners of industry. The increased cost will be marginal in their budgets compared to the middle class. They are the ones taking a hit from the bottom line because they are paying higher wages to the lower class, but at the same time they are making more money due to the increase in the cost of their goods. In essence, they are breaking even. Nothing gained, nothing lost.
Overall, the middle class takes the biggest hit.
I do not support any increase in minimum wage. Busniesses won't absorb the cost, they will pass it on to the consumer. It's the middle class that really pays for it, and the lower class doesn't really benefit anything anyway. Here's why:
- Lower class makes more money (minimum wage increase). Business raises prices to pay for the wage increase. In the end, low class ends up with the same amount of cash in their pockets because they are paying back their wage increase in the form of higher priced goods and services. Nothing gained, nothing lost.
- Middle class now pays more for the cost of basic goods/services, thus helping to finance the minimum wage increase. However they do not have an increase in wages to compensate (like the low class). In the end, the middle class has less money in their pockets because they are paying out more without a take-home pay increase. Loss of wealth for us.
- Upper class will now also pay more for the costs of basic goods and services, but it's a non-issue really, because these are the leaders/owners of industry. The increased cost will be marginal in their budgets compared to the middle class. They are the ones taking a hit from the bottom line because they are paying higher wages to the lower class, but at the same time they are making more money due to the increase in the cost of their goods. In essence, they are breaking even. Nothing gained, nothing lost.
Overall, the middle class takes the biggest hit.
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12-02-2006, 03:08 PM
#8
And as the middle class continues to decrease, so does the middle class voting power. So the middle class gets left out, because votes are what this is all about anyway.
12-02-2006, 04:05 PM
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The so called middle class is getting raped by the federal government in the form of taxes. Taxes are the reason people can't make it on one income anymore. I remember during the last election cycle that to be considered "rich" you only needed to make like 75000 a year according to the democrats. Think about it, if you make 100,000 a year this puts you in the 39.8% tax bracket letting you bring home about 5000 a month. The only way America will change is if everyone has to pay quarterly taxes and actually write the check to the gov. If every person working felt the pain that paying taxes brings instead of having it withheld and not really ever seeing it they would revolt. Saying nothing about how "I'm getting a 1000 dollar refund this year, Hooray!!, Hooray!!, what a bunch of stupid lemmings people are. Refund my ***! They took your freaking money!
12-02-2006, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by z11375ss
I remember during the last election cycle that to be considered "rich" you only needed to make like 75000 a year according to the democrats.
I think they must have a very clouded definition of the word "rich".
Remember, there are three sub-classes of the middle class. Lower-middle, middle-middle, and upper-middle.
An individual income of $75K/year is good, but certainly doesn't make you rich. A household income of $75K per year doesn't even put you in the upper-middle class, IMO. At least not in my general vicinity of the state. $75K/year for a household is basically middle-middle class around here.
12-02-2006, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by RPM WS6
Rich? On $75K/year? LOL, maybe $75K per year would make someone rich 40 years ago.
I think they must have a very clouded definition of the word "rich".
Remember, there are three sub-classes of the middle class. Lower-middle, middle-middle, and upper-middle.
An individual income of $75K/year is good, but certainly doesn't make you rich. A household income of $75K per year doesn't even put you in the upper-middle class, IMO. At least not in my general vicinity of the state. $75K/year for a household is basically middle-middle class around here.
I think they must have a very clouded definition of the word "rich".
Remember, there are three sub-classes of the middle class. Lower-middle, middle-middle, and upper-middle.
An individual income of $75K/year is good, but certainly doesn't make you rich. A household income of $75K per year doesn't even put you in the upper-middle class, IMO. At least not in my general vicinity of the state. $75K/year for a household is basically middle-middle class around here.
12-03-2006, 08:17 AM
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The biggest thing to consider here is that minimum wage is exactly that- it is a MINIMUM WAGE. I would bet almost everyody here has made minimum wage or close to it, it is a stepping stone. If you are a good worker and worth more, you WILL make more. I started at $4 an hour (minimum wage was 3.85) when they bumped it up to $4.25, that is exactly what I made. Over time though I advanced myslef and got better jobs, that is how it is supposed to work- not every dumbass gets to make good money despite the bull **** *** work they do. Not to mention the fact that Illinois minimum wage is already higher than federal.
And dont even get me started on the city's "Big Box" ordinance they tried to pass. How do you penalize a buisness for being succesful after starting out as one guy? How do you think you are doing people a favor by NOT making it easy for them to save money? Taking sales tax revenus away from the city? Taking jobs away from a community? Giving them a plaec to work where they could possibly adavance? How much do they really think the corner store("mom and pop") pays? Do they think they pay benefits? And of course the alderman make it a color issue. That is one thing Daley got right.
And dont even get me started on the city's "Big Box" ordinance they tried to pass. How do you penalize a buisness for being succesful after starting out as one guy? How do you think you are doing people a favor by NOT making it easy for them to save money? Taking sales tax revenus away from the city? Taking jobs away from a community? Giving them a plaec to work where they could possibly adavance? How much do they really think the corner store("mom and pop") pays? Do they think they pay benefits? And of course the alderman make it a color issue. That is one thing Daley got right.
12-03-2006, 09:12 AM
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Minimum wage hikes are all a bunch of hot gas spouted by the windbag politicians trying for the vote of the working poor who far outnumber the so called rich. Just remember, a poor man never gave anyone a job, minimum wage or not.
12-03-2006, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by mzoomora
I would bet almost everyody here has made minimum wage or close to it, it is a stepping stone. If you are a good worker and worth more, you WILL make more.
mzoomora, off topic but, just wanted to say that I love the color combo on your Z28. NBM with silver ZR1s looks great!
12-03-2006, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by RPM WS6
mzoomora, off topic but, just wanted to say that I love the color combo on your Z28. NBM with silver ZR1s looks great!
(I have been waiting to use that one)Its actually on silver 10 spokes most of the time now, or draglite's. I do like the sliver/NBM color combo though.
12-03-2006, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by RPM WS6
Rich? On $75K/year? LOL, maybe $75K per year would make someone rich 40 years ago.
I think they must have a very clouded definition of the word "rich".
Remember, there are three sub-classes of the middle class. Lower-middle, middle-middle, and upper-middle.
An individual income of $75K/year is good, but certainly doesn't make you rich. A household income of $75K per year doesn't even put you in the upper-middle class, IMO. At least not in my general vicinity of the state. $75K/year for a household is basically middle-middle class around here.
I think they must have a very clouded definition of the word "rich".
Remember, there are three sub-classes of the middle class. Lower-middle, middle-middle, and upper-middle.
An individual income of $75K/year is good, but certainly doesn't make you rich. A household income of $75K per year doesn't even put you in the upper-middle class, IMO. At least not in my general vicinity of the state. $75K/year for a household is basically middle-middle class around here.
From where I stand, $75K a year is just a little bit above getting by in todays terms. Between the mortgage and the school loans that I acquired to obtain the skills to make a decent amount of money, along with just daily living expenses and slight financial pursuits in the hobby, you just can't do it for less than $60K for a single income. Then you got to figure you need to save for retirement, and keep in mind I have no car payments right now, $70K is almost an absolute must!
Granted one can live on quite a bit less, not everyone desires a house. If it was just rent then we'd be talking about $10K less annually.
IMO these numbers are ridiculous!
02sierraz71_5.3 is totally right, I constantly hear the stories of people back in the 60's working lower wage jobs and buying new cars, nice performance-based new cars. Try doing that today! Good luck.
12-03-2006, 08:22 PM
#18
i agree, i am a student who will *hopefully* become a physical therapist, i am workin at carson pirie scott jus to get by and pay the car, they hired me at 7.00 as dock only, put me in housewares for 7.50 and made me lead associate at 9.00, i worked pretty hard for that alone, and i will be pissed as hell at the other associates who DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING gettin 8.25, . . . . . i remember when that SOB John Kerry was pushin for a 9.00 minimum wage increase, he was jus doin that for the votes, george bush was not in favor for this and pushed for education instead, . . go bush
12-04-2006, 08:04 AM
#19
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But you started at $7.00 so either you already benefited from the current minimum or that's what they needed to pay to get guys like yourself to work there. So in the end it's still a non-event.
I probably hired more recent grads (6) than anyone else in this thread. And nobody is making less than $14.00 starting (but it's salary).
I probably hired more recent grads (6) than anyone else in this thread. And nobody is making less than $14.00 starting (but it's salary).
12-04-2006, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by RPM WS6
I was very disappointed to see our current IL Governor re-elected, and this is one reason why.
I do not support any increase in minimum wage. Busniesses won't absorb the cost, they will pass it on to the consumer. It's the middle class that really pays for it, and the lower class doesn't really benefit anything anyway. Here's why:
- Lower class makes more money (minimum wage increase). Business raises prices to pay for the wage increase. In the end, low class ends up with the same amount of cash in their pockets because they are paying back their wage increase in the form of higher priced goods and services. Nothing gained, nothing lost.
- Middle class now pays more for the cost of basic goods/services, thus helping to finance the minimum wage increase. However they do not have an increase in wages to compensate (like the low class). In the end, the middle class has less money in their pockets because they are paying out more without a take-home pay increase. Loss of wealth for us.
- Upper class will now also pay more for the costs of basic goods and services, but it's a non-issue really, because these are the leaders/owners of industry. The increased cost will be marginal in their budgets compared to the middle class. They are the ones taking a hit from the bottom line because they are paying higher wages to the lower class, but at the same time they are making more money due to the increase in the cost of their goods. In essence, they are breaking even. Nothing gained, nothing lost.
Overall, the middle class takes the biggest hit.
I do not support any increase in minimum wage. Busniesses won't absorb the cost, they will pass it on to the consumer. It's the middle class that really pays for it, and the lower class doesn't really benefit anything anyway. Here's why:
- Lower class makes more money (minimum wage increase). Business raises prices to pay for the wage increase. In the end, low class ends up with the same amount of cash in their pockets because they are paying back their wage increase in the form of higher priced goods and services. Nothing gained, nothing lost.
- Middle class now pays more for the cost of basic goods/services, thus helping to finance the minimum wage increase. However they do not have an increase in wages to compensate (like the low class). In the end, the middle class has less money in their pockets because they are paying out more without a take-home pay increase. Loss of wealth for us.
- Upper class will now also pay more for the costs of basic goods and services, but it's a non-issue really, because these are the leaders/owners of industry. The increased cost will be marginal in their budgets compared to the middle class. They are the ones taking a hit from the bottom line because they are paying higher wages to the lower class, but at the same time they are making more money due to the increase in the cost of their goods. In essence, they are breaking even. Nothing gained, nothing lost.
Overall, the middle class takes the biggest hit.