Speeding ticket challenge
I've been a Trooper in Indiana for 9 years now and all I have to say is, I have lost only one ticket (a following too close) in that time and that was due to an a-hole judge. I have written many tickets without an actual radar checked speed and have not lost one yet. Our department makes us be radar and VASCAR certified, this means that we have to be able to guess a vehicles speed within plus or minus 5MPH of the true speed. There is actually a field test with an instructor to be certified. We have to do this with five cars in a row or we do not pass. It is not very easy to beat a ticket even with an attorney. I don't know about any of the other states but in Indiana, a speeding ticket is not a criminal offense, it a civil offense which means that the burden of proof is not "beyond a reasonable doubt," but "propondurance of the evidence." which means, the officer basically has to 51% right.
I would not bring up the officers conduct in court or anything about complaints because that does not get very far with judges. If the officer is truly that bad, the judge will already know about his conduct. It also will not help that the officer made clerical errors on the ticket, the judge will probably not throw it out. It won't be easy, but what do you have to lose, show up and give it a try, it all depends on what kind of judge you get.
I would not bring up the officers conduct in court or anything about complaints because that does not get very far with judges. If the officer is truly that bad, the judge will already know about his conduct. It also will not help that the officer made clerical errors on the ticket, the judge will probably not throw it out. It won't be easy, but what do you have to lose, show up and give it a try, it all depends on what kind of judge you get.
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 30
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From: houston
Well I guess technically I was speeding but it was a speed trap and there was no way to avoid being caught speeding. I was going down this dark highway and the speed limit was 60 but all of the sudden there was a sign in the middle of nowhere that dropped it down to 50. Well Mr. Hick was sitting a foot behind the sign. I mean yeah by the time I saw it--on a dark highway--there was no time to slow down because he was sitting right at the sign. I could see if he went a little further down and watched to see if people actually slowed down when they saw it, but this was outright blatent scamming. I was furious. This is how they make their money--by ripping off unsuspecting motorists from out of town with their stupid little speed traps. It's disgusting!!! 
All the effort spent, lawyer fees spent, lost wages spent and ultimately fines paid and in most cases increased insurance rates ... why not just take it to the track?
The thousands of dollars outlined above could make your car damned fast(er).
It is the responsibility of the driver to observe posted traffic signs ...
The thousands of dollars outlined above could make your car damned fast(er).
It is the responsibility of the driver to observe posted traffic signs ...
Ls1tech Bad Ass
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 771
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From: tulsa, ok
speeding violations are gay...thats why im not speeding anymore...... or im going to TRY not to speed anymore... 
. just got back from my 1st time @ court & it went a LOT better than i had expected.... but no more court for mal.... just thought id share my story.... 
.
. just got back from my 1st time @ court & it went a LOT better than i had expected.... but no more court for mal.... just thought id share my story.... . 
11 Second Club
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,311
Likes: 2
From: loudoun county,va
couple things from someone who has beaten 12 tkts now....
first NEVER take advice from a trooper that tells you you wont beat a BS tkt...
they have a brotherhood bond(thats why most cops dont write other cops tkts)
next if nobody ever brings up the cops record then how will this traffic judge know about it?
lemme see ... if i have a history of stealing ... and you call the cops on me because you say i was shopliffting from your store... chances are ppl will belive you... same goes for this cops record....
bring it up ... if the judge is unmoved at least he will have been made aware for future cases...
next the errors on the tkt are VERY relivent in this case... sweet lord he posted the WRONGE speed limit... i would question the officers sobriaty....
as for cops eyeballs being accurate you can throw that out the window and flush that too... i could make ANYONE fail the 5 car test ... that test is VERY easy if you know the sound of a TEST vehicals motor at a given rpm in a given gear
but lemme open my cutout drop a gear and pass you at 55 ... you will miss it EVERY TIME trooper...
there are guys that run the traps at drag tracks that did it for 20+ years that would not take the EXPERT on eyeballing speed that mr trooper did...(ask me how i know)
bottom line....
get a lawer show him these facts and get your get out of tkt free pass....
have a nice day
first NEVER take advice from a trooper that tells you you wont beat a BS tkt...
they have a brotherhood bond(thats why most cops dont write other cops tkts)
next if nobody ever brings up the cops record then how will this traffic judge know about it?
lemme see ... if i have a history of stealing ... and you call the cops on me because you say i was shopliffting from your store... chances are ppl will belive you... same goes for this cops record....
bring it up ... if the judge is unmoved at least he will have been made aware for future cases...
next the errors on the tkt are VERY relivent in this case... sweet lord he posted the WRONGE speed limit... i would question the officers sobriaty....
as for cops eyeballs being accurate you can throw that out the window and flush that too... i could make ANYONE fail the 5 car test ... that test is VERY easy if you know the sound of a TEST vehicals motor at a given rpm in a given gear
but lemme open my cutout drop a gear and pass you at 55 ... you will miss it EVERY TIME trooper...
there are guys that run the traps at drag tracks that did it for 20+ years that would not take the EXPERT on eyeballing speed that mr trooper did...(ask me how i know)
bottom line....
get a lawer show him these facts and get your get out of tkt free pass....
have a nice day
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 30
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From: houston
So that's what they teach you at radar training--how to trap unsuspecting outta-towners with your radar gun. Seems to me you don't even need a radar gun if you are gonna sit right by the sign because the driver is always still gonna be speeding when he passes the sign even if he see's it and starts slowing down ahead of the sign. So furthermore if he is sitting in front of the sign and clocks you that means that he clocked you before you passed the sign--Hmmmm interesting. How can he clock you before you reach the sign and this be considered speeding. It's called highway robbery!! hehehee
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Brett Foote
12 Second Club
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 270
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From: Chicago IL
Originally Posted by Patrolman808
Yea, you'll get off. If ANYTHING is wrong, or misspelled on the ticket, it can be thrown out of court, if you point it out to the judge. IE name misspelled, date, any little thing.
Thread Starter
TECH Resident
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 981
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From: Land of rocks and boredom
Man, some of you guys got me worried and some got me hopeful. I am going to go pick up his notes tomorrow from the records division and see what he wrote down. Knowing this cop it will be total crap and lies, guess we will see. More advice/stories will be greatly appreciated.
here is what i was told by mt profesor/lawyer/retired judge.......
he said to make a plea of not guilty or no contest. once you make the plea then show him the errors. this will prevent him from handing the cop the ticket and the cop tareing it up and writing a new correct one. ONLY because you made a plea already and it would be double jepordy for the cop to write a new ticket.
he said that stuf like the cop writing the car is black and it is dark blue wont matter but major stuff like road, car make, date and such do matter.
i feel you could get out of it easily if you took the correct root. being cockey will get you no were. also complaining to a judge about a cop does work. there are other stepps they can inform you of that you can take but i dont think it would be for any thing like being a dick. more like a cop being out of control for instance jurking you out of the car and slaming your head on the hood for being smart when you were pulled over for a blinker violation.
but like many said it depends were you live and how the judge is.
i would prob get a lawyer to be safe cause you still have a long way to go till your insurance drops.
he said to make a plea of not guilty or no contest. once you make the plea then show him the errors. this will prevent him from handing the cop the ticket and the cop tareing it up and writing a new correct one. ONLY because you made a plea already and it would be double jepordy for the cop to write a new ticket.
he said that stuf like the cop writing the car is black and it is dark blue wont matter but major stuff like road, car make, date and such do matter.
i feel you could get out of it easily if you took the correct root. being cockey will get you no were. also complaining to a judge about a cop does work. there are other stepps they can inform you of that you can take but i dont think it would be for any thing like being a dick. more like a cop being out of control for instance jurking you out of the car and slaming your head on the hood for being smart when you were pulled over for a blinker violation.
but like many said it depends were you live and how the judge is.
i would prob get a lawyer to be safe cause you still have a long way to go till your insurance drops.
Even if the cop tears up the citation due to the inaccuracy of the citation......he has a year and a day (from the date of the violation) to issue a correct one, so don't bet on that. However, the speed limit that is posted is not effective until AFTER you pass the sign. This is so you can observe the sign and make your speed adjustments. This is how Maryland is...don't know about any other state. Also in the state of Maryland, an officer cannot "eyeball" your speed and determine an EXACT speed. There is a charge for "speed greater than reasonable". In Maryland, the only way to lock onto a certain speed is by pacing (which is still quite innaccurate, and thrown out by some judges), RADAR (ALOT more accurate but can be beaten given certain situations) and LIDAR which is a laser-based speed measurement (good luck getting out of this one). But given your situation, I would plead not guilty and then say because he "eyeballed" you before the posted speed limit in question was in effect. Oh, and if the road is long and straight, especially at night, it would be impossible to determine the speed of a vehicle by visual estimation. As long as there are no hills and the such (that way he can't estimate a distance traveled in a certain time.)
Last edited by kjmdrumz3; Mar 11, 2004 at 03:05 AM.
On The Tree
Joined: Mar 2004
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I was headin back to my college on a sunday night about 2 and a half months ago, i was tryin to make the shuttle bus so that i could drop my car off and get a ride to my dorm. Well i had about five minutes and was still like 4-5 miles away. Of course i decided to punch it, and was doing about 90 when it changed to a 55 zone, suddenly i had no less than three cops come flyin off an on ramp like angry bees. 300 dollar ticket and a letter sent to me saying 12 points will be issued if you are found guilty. So i went to court and the guy in front of me basically had the same thing he got 500 dollars and had his license suspended. So by this point i was shaking in my boots literally. The judge saw my discomfort and stated "well son you look like you regret it so im gonna drop your fine to 150 dollars and probation before judgement" Oh yeah and i was also really polite and like yes your honor to everythin he said 
. (pbj means no points) Anyway the moral is to look like you really are sorry and act like it too. Plus with your ticket if the judge pays any attention at all to the mistakes he will at least reduce it.
. (pbj means no points) Anyway the moral is to look like you really are sorry and act like it too. Plus with your ticket if the judge pays any attention at all to the mistakes he will at least reduce it. 
Just go to court and try and beat it. It's worth a shot. If your found guilty, ask for probation. At least it won't go on your record. I've been a cop for 4 years and I always hated writing speeding tickets. But you bust a redlight and it's your ***. ha ha j/k (Finally made detective and don't have to do that crap anymore) Good luck getting out of it. BTW, there is no set way or guarantee to get out of a ticket. It really all depends on the judge. Just be nice and courteous and say "your honor". Maybe you won't get the electric chair.
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 44
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From: Nor-Cal
The California Vehicle code does not disallow officers to be trained in a manner in which they can guess the speed of a vehicle. I have been trained and certified in this manner myself. Annother way cops get around giving speeding tickets WITHOUT knowing your actual speed is by writting 65+ on the ticket. For example. Its a 40MPH zone you fly past me, and I dont have radar. I guess you are at about 65 maybe more. So on the ticket I write down 65+ since I do not have an exact measurement and then your skrewed.
As for a ticket lawyer dont get one, this ticket was written improperly, so therefore it is invalid. Also here in California Law enforcement Officers have 1 month from the day of the violation to cite you, and since he already did and its on paper with you and the courts, AND his department he wont be citing you again for the same violation.
As for a ticket lawyer dont get one, this ticket was written improperly, so therefore it is invalid. Also here in California Law enforcement Officers have 1 month from the day of the violation to cite you, and since he already did and its on paper with you and the courts, AND his department he wont be citing you again for the same violation.
Dude, It's not 100% full proof, but it's worked for me 3 time already, first of all, never admit fault, go to the arraignment and plead not guilty and request a trial by jury, that will automatically reset the thing for at least 3 months, the more time between the actual offense the better, people tend to forget things, also all cops work part time jobs to make a living so chances are he wont even show up, but if don’t show up, that’s still not a guaranteed victory, the D.A. will try to scare you into taking a lesser plea, stand your ground and demand a trial by jury, you can defend yourself, or in your case being too young to work, ask for a public defender IE: "If you cannot afford one, one will be appointed to you" and tell them that you were in no way breaking the law, with a trial by jury, the burden of proof is on the state, if the radar wasn’t calibrated recently you could get it thrown out as well, moral of the story, it worked for me 3 times, all 3 times I request a trial by jury, all 3 times got dismissed, and never did I actually go to the jury trial...Just know your rights, and even if you have to go in front of a jury, chances are if you keep your cool, and state your case they will be more willing to believe you, as everybody knows how the police target youngsters, just tell them that you were not speeding, and that your car looks like it's going 100mph stopped, and he just assumed such allegations. I think your be all right, but leave the technicalities out of it, they alone wont dismiss it...Later Gator
~James
~James
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 44
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From: Nor-Cal
Ok, he is in California. On top of that this is a Rocklin Cop, those guys make minimum 55k a year, and have no need for a part time job. Also if you request a jury your going to **** the judge off, there is no need to go that far. Just go in there say not guilty w/ no contest and say the ticket was written wrong. Dont be late to court. Dont dressin basic street clothes, but dont wear your sunday best, be courteous, and polite, and things will turn out ok. Dont try an pull some crazy **** off for a speeding ticket.
