Newbie ???
Fibbado, I agree completely, a tune is definitely worthwhile and necessary after modifications, even if they are just minor like headers and exhaust. Glad we can see eye to eye.
On a Duramax diesel, a tune is the first mod I'd do. But for the rest of civilization running gasoline powered cars there aren't many that will benefit at all from it.
You will not gain any power with a tune. There is nothing good to be had on a stock car with a tune (Besides skip shift etc). Save the money for the bolt ons, but make sure you can still afford the tune after the bolt ons.
On a Duramax diesel, a tune is the first mod I'd do. But for the rest of civilization running gasoline powered cars there aren't many that will benefit at all from it.
You will not gain any power with a tune. There is nothing good to be had on a stock car with a tune (Besides skip shift etc). Save the money for the bolt ons, but make sure you can still afford the tune after the bolt ons.
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Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Naperville, IL
Not worth it with minimal mods. I didn't get tuned when I did my headers and exhaust, because I knew I was going further. It wasn't worth it to spend 500 when I was going to have to pay again after the cam and heads. I lived without the extra 10hp or whatever for a bit. Find out where you will be stopping at mod-wise for a while and get it tuned after that. That's where it will make a difference and be worth it.
Originally Posted by FieroZ34
Yah. You're spot on, the average enthusiast knows how to tune these cars better than the genius who built it. Right. GM build it, and tuned it, to make the highest amount possible whilst still retaining a margin of error for the unexpected. Like a bad tank of gas. Like a bad fuel filter. Like your wife putting 85 in. If you want to throw all of this safety out the window, and trust the gas companies who are making love to your prison hole, go ahead. But I'll be 5hp down from you, and with a running engine the day we both get a bad tank.
Originally Posted by FieroZ34
So let's see this proof. I want a before and after dyno on a STOCK car with just a tune.
Originally Posted by FieroZ34
I CLEARLY said STOCK CARS. That doesn't mean the guy who took a hacksaw to his exhaust system. That means someone like me, who hasn't so much as touched the engine on their Camaro, right down tot he paper air filter. I then clearly stated that tuning a car is a good idea once you modify it. But if you are going to tune out your O2's, you may as well install a carb, as you've just taken away one of the biggest functions EFI brings to us.
Originally Posted by FieroZ34
How so? Because I understand GM fuel injection because I have spent over 8 years studying and modifying it, only to figure out that on a stock car, it really isn't possible to outdo what the factory did and retain the margin of error?
Everyone has different goals and ways they want to use their car. What is fine for you might not be for someone else.
Originally Posted by FieroZ34
Find me one gas station that gives out perfect gasoline, EVERY GALLON. Then you can safely run more timing than stock. About enough timing to give you 4-5hp. I've done this, on many cars, only to be quite unimpressed with the results.
Originally Posted by FieroZ34
And you can. The only consequence is that for those first 8 engine cycles, you will ping. But after that, it will be safe. You may only make 200hp, but it will be safe to do so.
Originally Posted by FieroZ34
I haven't needed to work on any of my LS1s. The day I do, it goes to the dealership under warranty
Originally Posted by FieroZ34
I removed AIR and EGR on a friend's LS1 a few eeks ago. I;ve since put both systems right back on the car. It REEKS of exhaust for the first 10 minutes of run time. It is to the point that it gives you a headache. GM made the cold-start maps under the assumption that these systems would be on and operational. Removing the AIR system does the same thing as removing the cats for the first 10 minutes of runtime.
Originally Posted by FieroZ34
I'll give you that one too, however there's a reason GM put a 6-speed in the cars. My shifts are however I want them to be.
Originally Posted by FieroZ34
When it comes to the PCM and EFI, GM did get everything right. That is one of the few parts on any GM vehicle that I can honestly say is perfect.
Originally Posted by FieroZ34
Even in the old days of OBD1, they were still fantastic.
As someone who owns and tunes an OBD1 car, I can tell you that there are a plethora of things GM didn't get right on these. Like for example you can get 10+ rwhp stock just by correcting the a/f ratio. The stock setting tuned the WOT a/f for about 11.2, which is way richer than it needs to be. Then there is the fact that you can't run more than a 2800-3000 stall on these cars or the computer has a fit and switches to the trans limp mode. There is a fix for this with tuning. Or the fact that you can't spin the motor past 7200rpm under ANY circumstances, even if you have the setup to do so. Or the fact that it's very hard to run multi-bar MAP setups on these computers for turbo people. Or the fact that the stock knock settings don't work well at all if you have any exhaust mods, I could go on and on...
Again, nothing personal here dude, I just happen to disagree with just about everything you have to say.
Last edited by infinitebird; Jun 7, 2007 at 04:59 PM.
