timing retard on demand??
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: Copenhagen
timing retard on demand?? is there a way of running a decent hit.. 125-150 shot without having to run a nitrous friendly tune?? i have some ideas if no electronic widget exists to pull timing when the solenoids go hot.. tell me what you think..
1. having a seperate fuelsystem and spraying racefuel with the nitrous?
2. adding a water or meth/water injection system to spray with the nitrous?
3. running a smaller fuel jet with the nitrous, and having a relay in the IAT sensor line that increased resistance (by say.. 75000 ohms), tricking the ECU to add fuel and pull timing...
GM IAT #2320 Temp/Resistance Scaling
Degrees F Degrees C Ohms
-40º -40 100,700
0º -18 25,000
20º -7 13,500
40º 4 7,500
70º 21 3,400
100º 38 1,800
160º 71 450
210º 99 185
1. having a seperate fuelsystem and spraying racefuel with the nitrous?
2. adding a water or meth/water injection system to spray with the nitrous?
3. running a smaller fuel jet with the nitrous, and having a relay in the IAT sensor line that increased resistance (by say.. 75000 ohms), tricking the ECU to add fuel and pull timing...
GM IAT #2320 Temp/Resistance Scaling
Degrees F Degrees C Ohms
-40º -40 100,700
0º -18 25,000
20º -7 13,500
40º 4 7,500
70º 21 3,400
100º 38 1,800
160º 71 450
210º 99 185
Have you ever had a tune done? you wont need to pull any timing for that sized shot if your timing hasnt been advanced. And yes, there are several devices that are made just to pull timing. Not sure what you mean about, NOT having a nitrous friendly tune, do you mean your NA tune?
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 1
From: Rockfield Kentucky
I just got of the dyno.
I ran an LS2 with LS3 heads. It is a GTO Configured LS2 so it was a 24X engine. I ran the MSD 6010 box with the jumper harness to take control of the ignition map. The intake is a stock L76 and a Holley 90MM Throttle body.
I optimized the NA tune. I use a NOS Mini Controller and it's uses the TPS signal and a built in window switch.
The MSD has a progrmable step retard which I set for 4 degrees. That way I can run my optimized NA tune and then run the Nitrous the way that I want. I can program any amount of retard into the MSD 6010. I run 28 Degrees NA and 24 on the hit.
I also use the negative wire from the controller to kick the neg on the relay that powers the positive side of the solinoids.
Robin
I ran an LS2 with LS3 heads. It is a GTO Configured LS2 so it was a 24X engine. I ran the MSD 6010 box with the jumper harness to take control of the ignition map. The intake is a stock L76 and a Holley 90MM Throttle body.
I optimized the NA tune. I use a NOS Mini Controller and it's uses the TPS signal and a built in window switch.
The MSD has a progrmable step retard which I set for 4 degrees. That way I can run my optimized NA tune and then run the Nitrous the way that I want. I can program any amount of retard into the MSD 6010. I run 28 Degrees NA and 24 on the hit.
I also use the negative wire from the controller to kick the neg on the relay that powers the positive side of the solinoids.
Robin
Trending Topics
I currently run a "nitrous friendly" tune. Believe it or not, against a previous run w/ optimized NA tune, I only lost 3hp w/ 4 degrees of timing pulled. I was quite surprised to say the least. Not a bad sacrifice to be on the safe side.
LS1 Tech Stories
The Best V8 Stories One Small Block at Time
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Pouria Savadkouei
Top 10 Most Powerful Chevy Trucks Ever Made!
Hennessey's New Supercharged Silverado ZR2 Has 700 HP
Verdad Gallardo
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Verdad Gallardo
Awesome K5 Blazer Restomod Comes With C7 Corvette Power
Verdad Gallardo
10 Camaros You Should Never Buy
10 LS Engine Myths That Refuse to Die
Verdad Gallardo
Five Reasons the Camaro Was the Most Pivotal Player in the Pony Car Wars 2.0
Brett Foote
10 Reasons the LS7 Is GM's Most Extreme Naturally Aspirated V8 Engine Ever
Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: Copenhagen
im not sure i want to run the MSD 6010 as i would like to keep the controlls in one box....
but the reason i ask these questions is that im trying to design or atleast lay out what i need for a fire and forget nitrous system.. somthing with an on/arm switch and a purge button..
and all i would have to do was flip the switch and my bottle would open, the window/WOT switch com on and when i hit 3500 rpm at wot it would fire, retard the timing to keep me safe and monitor AF so it would shut down in case of a lean...
but the reason i ask these questions is that im trying to design or atleast lay out what i need for a fire and forget nitrous system.. somthing with an on/arm switch and a purge button..
and all i would have to do was flip the switch and my bottle would open, the window/WOT switch com on and when i hit 3500 rpm at wot it would fire, retard the timing to keep me safe and monitor AF so it would shut down in case of a lean...
http://www.harrisspeedworks.com/shop...age=1&featured
http://www.harrisspeedworks.com/shop...age=1&featured
These two would do what you want and then some. If your ready to purchase we are having a 20% off sale that expires at the end of the day today.
http://www.harrisspeedworks.com/shop...age=1&featured
These two would do what you want and then some. If your ready to purchase we are having a 20% off sale that expires at the end of the day today.
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 1
From: Rockfield Kentucky
im not sure i want to run the MSD 6010 as i would like to keep the controlls in one box....
but the reason i ask these questions is that im trying to design or atleast lay out what i need for a fire and forget nitrous system.. somthing with an on/arm switch and a purge button..
and all i would have to do was flip the switch and my bottle would open, the window/WOT switch com on and when i hit 3500 rpm at wot it would fire, retard the timing to keep me safe and monitor AF so it would shut down in case of a lean...
but the reason i ask these questions is that im trying to design or atleast lay out what i need for a fire and forget nitrous system.. somthing with an on/arm switch and a purge button..
and all i would have to do was flip the switch and my bottle would open, the window/WOT switch com on and when i hit 3500 rpm at wot it would fire, retard the timing to keep me safe and monitor AF so it would shut down in case of a lean...
I used the NOS Mini 2 stage controller on the dyno. I use the NOS Launcher controller on my Nova. It has the wide band option so I can shut down should I get too rich
My dyno guy liked our setup. All he had to do was exceed the low rpm activate and hit WOT which also starts the dyno log. He hit 7000 and the controller shut the Nitrous off. That is where I programmed the top of the window.
Good luck!
Robin
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
From: Copenhagen
http://www.harrisspeedworks.com/shop...age=1&featured
http://www.harrisspeedworks.com/shop...age=1&featured
These two would do what you want and then some. If your ready to purchase we are having a 20% off sale that expires at the end of the day today.
http://www.harrisspeedworks.com/shop...age=1&featured
These two would do what you want and then some. If your ready to purchase we are having a 20% off sale that expires at the end of the day today.
anyway, i think ill get the HSW All-Out Nitrous System Accessory Kit when i figure out my switches etc.... do you guys sell spray bars by them selves by any chance??? 
While all the other options previously presented are fine choices, reading your original desire for a "push the button" and forget about it all in one system, I would like to point out the custom operating system from EFI Live that does just that. Wire in a double pull, double throw relay to your master arm switch that provides power to your system and ground to pin 56 on the red connector of your stock pcm and blamo- You will have the capability that your are looking for. Just setup the timing retard in the software, plus add fuel.
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 603
Likes: 1
From: Decatur, IN
Nitrous timing retard Our LNC-002 is designed to provide timing retard (along with a 2-step function). You wire the timing retard activation wire to the nitrous activation/solenoid. You can adjust the amount of timing retard and the rate at which the timing is removed.
The LNC-002 plugs into the factory GM coil packs connectors.
For more details, you can go to the installation instructions here.
The LNC-002 plugs into the factory GM coil packs connectors.
For more details, you can go to the installation instructions here.
is there a way of running a decent hit.. 125-150 shot without having to run a nitrous friendly tune?? i have some ideas if no electronic widget exists to pull timing when the solenoids go hot.. tell me what you think..
1. having a seperate fuelsystem and spraying racefuel with the nitrous?
2. adding a water or meth/water injection system to spray with the nitrous?
3. running a smaller fuel jet with the nitrous, and having a relay in the IAT sensor line that increased resistance (by say.. 75000 ohms), tricking the ECU to add fuel and pull timing...
GM IAT #2320 Temp/Resistance Scaling
Degrees F Degrees C Ohms
-40º -40 100,700
0º -18 25,000
20º -7 13,500
40º 4 7,500
70º 21 3,400
100º 38 1,800
160º 71 450
210º 99 185
1. having a seperate fuelsystem and spraying racefuel with the nitrous?
2. adding a water or meth/water injection system to spray with the nitrous?
3. running a smaller fuel jet with the nitrous, and having a relay in the IAT sensor line that increased resistance (by say.. 75000 ohms), tricking the ECU to add fuel and pull timing...
GM IAT #2320 Temp/Resistance Scaling
Degrees F Degrees C Ohms
-40º -40 100,700
0º -18 25,000
20º -7 13,500
40º 4 7,500
70º 21 3,400
100º 38 1,800
160º 71 450
210º 99 185
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 603
Likes: 1
From: Decatur, IN
IAT for timing retard and fueling with nitrous I realized I didn't respond to the second half of the question/post before.
Regarding the IAT method of timing and fueling, the timing can be controlled by the IAT although you have to be fairly careful and really need calibration software to do it correctly. For example, one thing you can do is set the very high temperature readings to specific timing retard values and then use a switch to disable the IAT and switch over to known resistance values that set the reading to those specific temperatures and retard level.
One of the reasons you have to be careful using IAT as a timing retard tricker is that several tables modify each other so you have a multiplier of IAT retard based on ECT. This might mean below a certain ECT, you don't have any IAT retard no matter what the IAT is. At other ECT values you might only have 50% or 80% of the IAT retard value in the IAT table. You may also have an RPM based modifier (or a table may have two axis).
Using IAT for fueling isn't very useful because the IAT input to fuel is very small. Fueling is better handled in your nitrous system.
Regarding the IAT method of timing and fueling, the timing can be controlled by the IAT although you have to be fairly careful and really need calibration software to do it correctly. For example, one thing you can do is set the very high temperature readings to specific timing retard values and then use a switch to disable the IAT and switch over to known resistance values that set the reading to those specific temperatures and retard level.
One of the reasons you have to be careful using IAT as a timing retard tricker is that several tables modify each other so you have a multiplier of IAT retard based on ECT. This might mean below a certain ECT, you don't have any IAT retard no matter what the IAT is. At other ECT values you might only have 50% or 80% of the IAT retard value in the IAT table. You may also have an RPM based modifier (or a table may have two axis).
Using IAT for fueling isn't very useful because the IAT input to fuel is very small. Fueling is better handled in your nitrous system.
is there a way of running a decent hit.. 125-150 shot without having to run a nitrous friendly tune?? i have some ideas if no electronic widget exists to pull timing when the solenoids go hot.. tell me what you think..
1. having a seperate fuelsystem and spraying racefuel with the nitrous?
2. adding a water or meth/water injection system to spray with the nitrous?
3. running a smaller fuel jet with the nitrous, and having a relay in the IAT sensor line that increased resistance (by say.. 75000 ohms), tricking the ECU to add fuel and pull timing...
GM IAT #2320 Temp/Resistance Scaling
Degrees F Degrees C Ohms
-40º -40 100,700
0º -18 25,000
20º -7 13,500
40º 4 7,500
70º 21 3,400
100º 38 1,800
160º 71 450
210º 99 185
1. having a seperate fuelsystem and spraying racefuel with the nitrous?
2. adding a water or meth/water injection system to spray with the nitrous?
3. running a smaller fuel jet with the nitrous, and having a relay in the IAT sensor line that increased resistance (by say.. 75000 ohms), tricking the ECU to add fuel and pull timing...
GM IAT #2320 Temp/Resistance Scaling
Degrees F Degrees C Ohms
-40º -40 100,700
0º -18 25,000
20º -7 13,500
40º 4 7,500
70º 21 3,400
100º 38 1,800
160º 71 450
210º 99 185
