Is this the answer to out Timing/Knock Retard issues?
12-09-2001, 01:04 PM
#1
Is this the answer to out Timing/Knock Retard issues? http://www.safeguard.20m.com/safeguard.html
I already emailed them, so don't bombard them. I will post what I find out here and on LS1.com. Here's my email:
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I have experienced numerous issues with running turbo on the vehicle. Several blown head gaskets, score cylinders, melted plugs, etc. As of now, many people are using "mail order" tuning on the LS1 to manage turbo and high performance applications. The issue for the LS1 crowd is the lack of real time sensors that will keep us from hurting our very expensive buildups.
Can you give me info on how your unit attaches and interacts with OBD2?
Is thing "plug and play"? Or is there splicing involved.
The LS1 has two knock sensors on the lifter valley cover. Are these still used? That is, does the unit pull timing based on factory knock sensor input?
Lastly, we want to know what the pricing will be for an LS1 type kit with the dual readout option you have. I think there will be much interest from the LS1 crowd. Any possibility of a group purchase? If so, please let me know the details.
Sincerely,
Todd Brandon (aka Reckless)
turbo-ws6@hawaii.rr.com
www.turbo-ws6.com
--------------------------------------------------
I already emailed them, so don't bombard them. I will post what I find out here and on LS1.com. Here's my email:
--------------------------------------------------
I have experienced numerous issues with running turbo on the vehicle. Several blown head gaskets, score cylinders, melted plugs, etc. As of now, many people are using "mail order" tuning on the LS1 to manage turbo and high performance applications. The issue for the LS1 crowd is the lack of real time sensors that will keep us from hurting our very expensive buildups.
Can you give me info on how your unit attaches and interacts with OBD2?
Is thing "plug and play"? Or is there splicing involved.
The LS1 has two knock sensors on the lifter valley cover. Are these still used? That is, does the unit pull timing based on factory knock sensor input?
Lastly, we want to know what the pricing will be for an LS1 type kit with the dual readout option you have. I think there will be much interest from the LS1 crowd. Any possibility of a group purchase? If so, please let me know the details.
Sincerely,
Todd Brandon (aka Reckless)
turbo-ws6@hawaii.rr.com
www.turbo-ws6.com
--------------------------------------------------
12-09-2001, 10:59 PM
#3
Re: Is this the answer to out Timing/Knock Retard issues? Sorry guys. Here's the email I got back from John:
---------------------------------------------
Todd:
Contrary to what our website says, our four channel unit still has not been vehicle tested. The guy that does our site got a little carried away, trying to help.
This is my second design attempt. My first design worked on the bench, but was a failure when I put it on an engine, so I put it on the back burner for about a year. I took another look at it this summer, and added some noise immunity circuits. Don't know if they'll do the job. I finally have an appointment to test it on a four coil Ford Mustang this Monday.
The unit is not plug and play. On the four coil Mustang, we cut the four coil drive signals, and put the unit in series.
Since the unit has only four channels, and the LS1 has eight coils, we would need to convert the LS1 ignition to a waste spark system. We would cut the eight coil drive signals, and group them appropriately, two per channel. Since the LS1 coils have the ignition transistor built in, there should be no problem driving two at a time. The coil-on-plug Ford's will not be so easy, since the coils they use don't have built in ignition transistors.
Since we don't modify any inputs, the OBDII computer shouldn't even know we are there.
The factory ECU knows if the knock sensors have been disconnected, so they must be retained. If necessary, we could tie both of the factory inputs to one sensor, through an attenuator, to de-sensitize the factory input, and let the J&S do most of the knock sensing.
Since I don't know if it even works yet, I can't say what it's going to cost, but the target list price is $595.00, and the dual monitor is an additional $199.00.
I have sent a few emails to David Inall about the unit, but he says it doesn't suit his needs. The car already comes with factory knock sensors, and he can't use our boost retard feature. Unless the unit offers fully mappable ignition curves, it's not very useful to him. He didn't say anything about the fact that our unit features individual cylinder knock control.
We worked with George Spears of Spearco on the DDMI twin turbo Mustang in 1991. The prototype car went to Australia with one of our knock controllers on it. Shirley and I met Dave in Spearco's booth at the Sema show that year. We were hoping that Dave was going to buy units for that kit, but he told us they were going to do their own electronics package. The kits were released with the distributor cranked back. So much for that. I wasn't all that surprised when he also rejected our new four channel unit.
If all goes well with tests, the board still has to go through another layout. I put the connector too close to the side of the case, and it doesn't quite clear the front panel cutout. That will add another three to four weeks. I do have six pre-production boards, so if they work, and if someone is in a hurry, we could offer them for sale.
--
John and Shirley
J&S Electronics
www.safeguard.20m.com
---------------------------------------------
Todd
---------------------------------------------
Todd:
Contrary to what our website says, our four channel unit still has not been vehicle tested. The guy that does our site got a little carried away, trying to help.
This is my second design attempt. My first design worked on the bench, but was a failure when I put it on an engine, so I put it on the back burner for about a year. I took another look at it this summer, and added some noise immunity circuits. Don't know if they'll do the job. I finally have an appointment to test it on a four coil Ford Mustang this Monday.
The unit is not plug and play. On the four coil Mustang, we cut the four coil drive signals, and put the unit in series.
Since the unit has only four channels, and the LS1 has eight coils, we would need to convert the LS1 ignition to a waste spark system. We would cut the eight coil drive signals, and group them appropriately, two per channel. Since the LS1 coils have the ignition transistor built in, there should be no problem driving two at a time. The coil-on-plug Ford's will not be so easy, since the coils they use don't have built in ignition transistors.
Since we don't modify any inputs, the OBDII computer shouldn't even know we are there.
The factory ECU knows if the knock sensors have been disconnected, so they must be retained. If necessary, we could tie both of the factory inputs to one sensor, through an attenuator, to de-sensitize the factory input, and let the J&S do most of the knock sensing.
Since I don't know if it even works yet, I can't say what it's going to cost, but the target list price is $595.00, and the dual monitor is an additional $199.00.
I have sent a few emails to David Inall about the unit, but he says it doesn't suit his needs. The car already comes with factory knock sensors, and he can't use our boost retard feature. Unless the unit offers fully mappable ignition curves, it's not very useful to him. He didn't say anything about the fact that our unit features individual cylinder knock control.
We worked with George Spears of Spearco on the DDMI twin turbo Mustang in 1991. The prototype car went to Australia with one of our knock controllers on it. Shirley and I met Dave in Spearco's booth at the Sema show that year. We were hoping that Dave was going to buy units for that kit, but he told us they were going to do their own electronics package. The kits were released with the distributor cranked back. So much for that. I wasn't all that surprised when he also rejected our new four channel unit.
If all goes well with tests, the board still has to go through another layout. I put the connector too close to the side of the case, and it doesn't quite clear the front panel cutout. That will add another three to four weeks. I do have six pre-production boards, so if they work, and if someone is in a hurry, we could offer them for sale.
--
John and Shirley
J&S Electronics
www.safeguard.20m.com
---------------------------------------------
Todd
