How much timing are you running?
It would have helped our old set up for sure though.
If you are running a jet limited class that allows Q16 it would be worth something, other than that I would not use it.
I've been using nitrous for about 5 years and have a few friends with promods and other very fast nitrous cars. I do have some experience. I'm running -6 lines with NX Lightning solenoids (500hp capable) on my direct port, with a stand alone fuel system with c16 in it. I spray my 200 through a Nitrous Outlet plate with Harris solenoids (500hp capable). I forget what size fuel jet I ended up running (I think 2-3 sizes smaller than the card) and whatever they put on the card for a 200 shot.
I think you guys took me to seriously on the perfect plugs thing. I just meant no signs of detonation.
Nice to see what some other people are doing though.
I think you guys took me to seriously on the perfect plugs thing. I just meant no signs of detonation.
Nice to see what some other people are doing though.
Keep it lean and low on timing and it will live forever.
JMO.
I have been trying to tell this to people for months now and all I get is I am an idiot, internet tuner that is suggesting something that will blow a persons motor up.
Rich and over timed is not the way to go.
Rich and over timed is not the way to go.
We hurt some parts along the way to learn that and if they want to do the same its OK by me.
I'm on straight 93 with the 200 shot. The only reason I want to push it is to see when I do start getting a little detonation showing on the plugs. Then back it down somewhere safer. My motor loves timing so I think I'll start to see detonation on the plugs at 25* in which case I'll back it down to 23*. If I see detonation at 24* I'll go to 22* to be safe. My motor makes it's best power on 93 octane at 30* timing, and I don't get any knock to speak of until 32*. And no knock at all with 30*.
Why would you run more timing until you detonate?
The objective is to use the least amount of timing possible while still making peak power. Not pushing it until it detonates and backing it off one.
The more you advance the timing the further away the piston is from TDC when the spark ignites. This effectively fights the piston's natural upwards motion by setting the spark off too soon and it actually hurts power and can detonate. By letting the piston use all of it's available momentum before it gets to the point where the spark is lit the less downward force your trying to exert on the upward moving piston therefore not fighting it near us much as with advancing the timing any more.
Honestly do what ATV said to do, put a bigger nitrous jet in it, you will make more power while still having a clean safe tune.
Keep the timing low and keep it lean on the AFR and it will live forever like ATVracr said. I would take his advice he has traveled a looong road on the LS nitrous train and is finally stepping off at Prochargerville, but still knows a thing or two
The objective is to use the least amount of timing possible while still making peak power. Not pushing it until it detonates and backing it off one.
The more you advance the timing the further away the piston is from TDC when the spark ignites. This effectively fights the piston's natural upwards motion by setting the spark off too soon and it actually hurts power and can detonate. By letting the piston use all of it's available momentum before it gets to the point where the spark is lit the less downward force your trying to exert on the upward moving piston therefore not fighting it near us much as with advancing the timing any more.
Honestly do what ATV said to do, put a bigger nitrous jet in it, you will make more power while still having a clean safe tune.
Keep the timing low and keep it lean on the AFR and it will live forever like ATVracr said. I would take his advice he has traveled a looong road on the LS nitrous train and is finally stepping off at Prochargerville, but still knows a thing or two
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,058
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For the guy running 30 total, did you log that value or was that just a number you set in a spark table? You still have ACT/ECT/SMOOTHING at a min to account for. So one guy running 30 might really be 24 total or who knows what final spark value, could be more than 30.
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I'm trying to remember what our final timing number was on our 350 shot. We'd turn 1 unit on off the transbrake and the 2nd unit was usually on at .5 after that. Both jetted for 175hp.....
I believe we were at 17-18 degrees total from a base of 34 IIRC. I have to look at my XFI. This was using C16 and was a dry system. 83 lb injectors. 2 stage dry plate...
I believe we were at 17-18 degrees total from a base of 34 IIRC. I have to look at my XFI. This was using C16 and was a dry system. 83 lb injectors. 2 stage dry plate...
Sorry in advance for the thread hijack, but I have a similar timing questions, only on an LT1. Bryan Herter did my dyno tune last year and I'm running 38* of timing NA. I just built a new forged shortblock for nitrous and I'm bumping the compression to about 11.5-1 (and of course a new tune). I know LSX engines don't need as much timing advance to make the power, but will I be safe backing my timing down in the recommended 2 degree increments for each 50 shot up to 150 with my timing already so high?
I was afraid and backed the time a few times to 26* and 32* and the engine didn't like it, so I went to 45 again.
Nobody believes me, but it's true. I even checked the timing and it's good.
For your new engine start with conservative timing, proceed with caution, check plugs and AFR, recheck every run until you feel safe to move timing and jets up.
I'm on straight 93 with the 200 shot. The only reason I want to push it is to see when I do start getting a little detonation showing on the plugs. Then back it down somewhere safer. My motor loves timing so I think I'll start to see detonation on the plugs at 25* in which case I'll back it down to 23*. If I see detonation at 24* I'll go to 22* to be safe. My motor makes it's best power on 93 octane at 30* timing, and I don't get any knock to speak of until 32*. And no knock at all with 30*.
I run 45* with 200 shot and 100 octane on a SBC, 12:1 CR hypereutectic pistons and iron heads. No problems so far. I changed head gaskets a few months ago and the pistons are perfect.
I was afraid and backed the time a few times to 26* and 32* and the engine didn't like it, so I went to 45 again.
Nobody believes me, but it's true. I even checked the timing and it's good.
For your new engine start with conservative timing, proceed with caution, check plugs and AFR, recheck every run until you feel safe to move timing and jets up.
I was afraid and backed the time a few times to 26* and 32* and the engine didn't like it, so I went to 45 again.
Nobody believes me, but it's true. I even checked the timing and it's good.
For your new engine start with conservative timing, proceed with caution, check plugs and AFR, recheck every run until you feel safe to move timing and jets up.
I bet the guy with 45* timing's iron heads are playing a big part in the motor wanting that much timing. I've heard there is a big difference between what the two like(aluminum vs. iron)
Last time I changed head gaskets I even checked the zero timing mark against TDC and was correct.
Timing was checked with 3 timing lights and got the same readings.
It's crazy I know, but I haven't found an explanation why this engine likes so much timing.
11 Second Club
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: Lancaster, tx
side note...plugs looked better also
Atv, I have read a ton of your post and appreciate your help of people asking questions. I've heard people pulltiming and
then some say go up and some go down. I agree with junkie why would you go up, but your lean comment surprised me. I know all engines are diff. but what do you like as far as a/f when spraying?
then some say go up and some go down. I agree with junkie why would you go up, but your lean comment surprised me. I know all engines are diff. but what do you like as far as a/f when spraying?
Mine does make more power at 30* on motor than 28*. It actually didn't really lose power until It hit almost 33*. Before I did my heads it liked 28* though. I run my afr around 12.5-12.8 until about 6500rpm and then lean out to about 13-13.1 till 7000rpm. On spray it is at about 11.8-11.9 through the the whole rev range.
Atv, I have read a ton of your post and appreciate your help of people asking questions. I've heard people pulltiming and
then some say go up and some go down. I agree with junkie why would you go up, but your lean comment surprised me. I know all engines are diff. but what do you like as far as a/f when spraying?
then some say go up and some go down. I agree with junkie why would you go up, but your lean comment surprised me. I know all engines are diff. but what do you like as far as a/f when spraying?
I have said many times I would never tell any one to start there but pretty much what ever it likes to be without nitrous is where it will make most power with it on.
I'll tell you what I tell most of the guys who PM me.
Where ever you think your timing should be start 3-4* below that and for A/F low 12's is where I would start.
Then get the fuel right on the plugs.
Add 1/2-1* at at time keeping an eye on the fuel as you do.
Trust the plugs.... The motor wants what it wants, there are no "set" numbers to use.... like you said every motor is different.
Hope this helps.... Good luck.