Why more power with FI vs. Nitrous
the piston to wall clearance allows the piston to expand more before bad things happen and getting the ring gaps perfect ensures that the rings don't expand too much and butt into one another causing the ring land to break. I think that any plasma moly rings work well, but for a motor designed to spray a ton, you may want to look into some stainless rings. I don't know much about them except that they can be tough to get them to seat if the hone kob isn't perfect. I think the problem with the plasma moly rings is that at super high shots the plasma moly coating can chip off, but I think this really takes a lot of heat to do.
Originally Posted by zuluman13
Why would i want more piston to wall clearance with nitrous? And are total seal rings a bad idea with nitrous is it bettr to have the gap to bleed some pressure of.
Originally Posted by The Black Beast
Because of the extremely high cyl pressures associated with nitrous. The rings will expand a lot...a nitrous motor is a loose motor.
Which is exactly why I say ppl are wrong when they say "build it for NA and then add the spray!" Small shots sure, but really, how many ppl stick to small shots? Too much goes into putting a combo together, some ppl guess and luck out, others calculate and get it wrong anyway. My rings are loose for juice and hope to be back spraying this thing again before summer is over.
Originally Posted by CAT3
Which is exactly why I say ppl are wrong when they say "build it for NA and then add the spray!" Small shots sure, but really, how many ppl stick to small shots? Too much goes into putting a combo together, some ppl guess and luck out, others calculate and get it wrong anyway. My rings are loose for juice and hope to be back spraying this thing again before summer is over.
Mine is doing alright, although I do see more oil in my catchcan, even though I added the LS6 Valley cover and venting. If only these heads were 5 bolts rather then 4...
in my city- its $3 for a place that has your bottle filled in @ most an hour and a half or $2.50 a lb for a place that forgets your **** everytime and has it filled bye around 8 o'clock even though you dropped it off @ 2 o'clock
12 Second Club
Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Mechanicsville, VA
I agree with pretty much everything that has been said.
In theory, a motor built for FI that makes, lets say 400hp NA and is capable of making 1000hp with boost, should be able to take 5-600hp worth of juice. How you apply it is what will make or break it. Like was said, not many people that use nitrous use progressive controllers and that is what it would take to really make it work, and give it the same effect as boost. It's sad actually, I would bet that most of the PC's actually sold are for people using 75-150hp shots, which is just not needed.
The "bad rap" that nitrous inherently gets is what keeps a lot of people from running bigger shots. There are bigger cubed motors that run 1000-1500hp shots; a smaller cubed motor built just as stout (strong) should (and do) be able to handle 500+hp shots. And if the car's set up right you woudln't "need" a PC for it, a 250 out the gate and 250 in 2nd would be fine. Albeit the motor's not going to last as long as it would with PC. The bigger the intial shot the quicker things are gonna wear...
In theory, a motor built for FI that makes, lets say 400hp NA and is capable of making 1000hp with boost, should be able to take 5-600hp worth of juice. How you apply it is what will make or break it. Like was said, not many people that use nitrous use progressive controllers and that is what it would take to really make it work, and give it the same effect as boost. It's sad actually, I would bet that most of the PC's actually sold are for people using 75-150hp shots, which is just not needed.
The "bad rap" that nitrous inherently gets is what keeps a lot of people from running bigger shots. There are bigger cubed motors that run 1000-1500hp shots; a smaller cubed motor built just as stout (strong) should (and do) be able to handle 500+hp shots. And if the car's set up right you woudln't "need" a PC for it, a 250 out the gate and 250 in 2nd would be fine. Albeit the motor's not going to last as long as it would with PC. The bigger the intial shot the quicker things are gonna wear...
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From: East Side Performance! mASShole
good parts and good setups, and tunes will alow you to run over 300.
my first pass this season on my new setup will be on about 325, then i will be jetting up accordingly.
good pistions, and the best rings you can buy, good gas, good tune, and a good assembled motor will take over 300.
i had issues of "|pushing water" around 700 rwhp, but as of last year, i think we found out how to stop it, and should see soon how it works.
i put my motor in the car last night, and have been working on it all day, tranny should be here next wek, and it wont be long till i try the new setup out!
my first pass this season on my new setup will be on about 325, then i will be jetting up accordingly.
good pistions, and the best rings you can buy, good gas, good tune, and a good assembled motor will take over 300.
i had issues of "|pushing water" around 700 rwhp, but as of last year, i think we found out how to stop it, and should see soon how it works.
i put my motor in the car last night, and have been working on it all day, tranny should be here next wek, and it wont be long till i try the new setup out!
I don't see how a progressive controller can make a large shot any easier on a motor. Driveline parts yes, but motor I can't see it. The motor doesn't really "know" what it was doing a split second ago just what is going on at that very moment. I think it has to do with the nature of nitrous oxide/gas combustion taking place faster than the air/gas mixture forced induction uses.
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From: East Side Performance! mASShole
Originally Posted by 6speeder
I don't see how a progressive controller can make a large shot any easier on a motor. Driveline parts yes, but motor I can't see it. The motor doesn't really "know" what it was doing a split second ago just what is going on at that very moment. I think it has to do with the nature of nitrous oxide/gas combustion taking place faster than the air/gas mixture forced induction uses.
not sure how much it helps, i dont run ne, im a hit hard and go type of guy. lol
Estimated value of laminar
burning velocity S
burning velocity S
u of nitrous oxide decomposition is 1-0.4 cm/c under the constant
pressure of 1.0 MPa.
I can not find the rate of flame propagation for a normal 93 octane gasoline air mixture. there are a lot of variables thats for sure.
but here is a good article
http://www.erc.wisc.edu/modeling/mul...EM-UM_2005.pdf
pressure of 1.0 MPa.
I can not find the rate of flame propagation for a normal 93 octane gasoline air mixture. there are a lot of variables thats for sure.
but here is a good article
http://www.erc.wisc.edu/modeling/mul...EM-UM_2005.pdf
Originally Posted by zuluman13
I am currently building a 427 ls1 block with darton sleeves all forged bottom end billet main caps arp studs solid roller itb intake manifold bs3 etc. My original plan was to have a high hp N/A and then add a large amount of nitrous in the future. But from what I have been reading people think that a 300 shot is pushing it. Why is it that there are alot of turbo cars that can make lots of power with the ls1 block but the nitrous is limited. I also plan on running a separate fuel cell with race gas for the nitrous. Any help and info is appreciated.
Bottom line is you won't see our motors on nitrous making the same power or being able to run with the FI setups - period.
BTW, 300 ain't quite pushing it, but there is a very specific limit that most of us have found.
Originally Posted by rosm187
wouldnt this only be a factor for running single digits? .......im not saying its easy.....
Launching!
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From: brandon
so in a sense we are talking about....a FI car can go X.XX but a Nitrous car can only go X.XX. I mean i think everyone alrdy knew a FI car can make ALOT more HP, but at what point can a nitrous car not beat a FI car, i guess its a different question but it seems relavent to me....
