Dry DP - how would "you" handle it??
Originally Posted by Robert56
That's just it, the big dawgs are running the giant hits, not us lowly street/strippers, at least yet.
EFI eventually did it, Wed be up for some beta testing!
Originally Posted by AshWS6
Weve pushed 300 or so thru a dry system. Its just not very "user friendly" how we do it. My fingers are tired from writing emails to Ken/Chris and the gang asking them to do something like that EFI eventually did it, Id be up for some beta testing
EFI eventually did it, Id be up for some beta testingRobert
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Originally Posted by AshWS6
Weve pushed 300 or so thru a dry system. Its just not very "user friendly" how we do it. My fingers are tired from writing emails to Ken/Chris and the gang asking them to do something like that EFI eventually did it, Id be up for some beta testing
EFI eventually did it, Id be up for some beta testing Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Robert56
What EFI Live does with a switch, HP Tuner has been doing all along automatically, ie: no sw to forget. Robert
FYI - if this is what you are taliking about - EFI Live doesn't require a switch to access the secondary tables. It does require toggling a pin on the PCM with 12 v. That can be easily accomplished by sneding 12 v to the ECU when the n20 system is armed or fired etc. What exactly does HPTuners do "automatically"?
Originally Posted by Robert56
What EFI Live does with a switch, HP Tuner has been doing all along automatically, ie: no sw to forget.Robert
Originally Posted by BadAssFast
Robert this makes no sense to me...sorry. I'll ask you to elaboarte.
FYI - if this is what you are talking about - EFI Live doesn't require a switch to access the secondary tables. It does require toggling a pin on the PCM with 12 v. That can be easily accomplished by sneding 12 v to the ECU when the n20 system is armed or fired etc. What exactly does HPTuners do "automatically"?
FYI - if this is what you are talking about - EFI Live doesn't require a switch to access the secondary tables. It does require toggling a pin on the PCM with 12 v. That can be easily accomplished by sneding 12 v to the ECU when the n20 system is armed or fired etc. What exactly does HPTuners do "automatically"?
EFI Live (without COS5) has the Same IAT PE ability HPT has if your referring to that trick Robert. In addition the trick to use the Grams/cylinder above and beyond what is seen NA to pull timing when spraying a Dry Shot through the MAF can be done easily with EFI Live (without COS5) as well.
Here is what EFI Live COS5 adds for nitrous specific users:
A VE multiplier, this would work for both wet or dry kits (Would not have have to change jets for a wet kit when tuning, and would assist in a Dry application for say a SD Nitrous Application or dry on the stock tune).
A Nitrous Specific IAT vs VE Mult, so your not trick fcking your NA tune, it works when you want it to by toggle or having it activate with the noid (as you say automatically).
RPM based Nitrous Specific Timing pulling, again, not tricking the NA tune to pull timing when you exceed the g/cyl you see NA.
I am not gonna go into the argument of HPT vs EFI Live and who had what tables first, I will confirm that EFI Live stepped up to the plate and offered some nice Nitrous features so you don't have to trick a tune to do what you want (What I believe Robert is referring to with doing it automatically).
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Originally Posted by Black02SS
I don't think you understand the point of the custom OS for N20. It is to be able to run a dry system without a MAF. You don't have to rely on other tables or setting up anything different to have a N20/Motor tune. You flip the switch and essentially you have two different WOT tunes to use. It is a really nice feature which is why Granny has been requesting it from HPT.
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Originally Posted by Beer99C5
I am not gonna go into the argument of HPT vs EFI Live and who had what tables first, I will confirm that EFI Live stepped up to the plate and offered some nice Nitrous features so you don't have to trick a tune to do what you want (What I believe Robert is referring to with doing it automatically).
I'm glad you mentioned that we can put it a jet that is approximately correct and dial it it too. That is sweet...man that makes tuning that much easier.
I'd also mention that I use a manual switch simply because I don't want to use the ground with the FJO Mini Controller to ground a relay to energize the PCM-N20 Table activate wire with 12 volts since it turns of and on to pulse the noids in Progressive mode. I could have hooked it up to the arm wire of the FJO - but that is simply a 12 accessory wire and I have a transbrake wire that is wired into the FJO Mini to keep the notrous system off when transbrake is activated sooo a manual switch is easier. I think that makes sense.
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Verdad Gallardo I like it for the flexibility of the multiple stages...
Stay NA for playing with a 100 shot, if I want to get nasty with the 200, throw the switch and I am good to go w/ 200.
Awesome flexibility...now if I can only get my fuel pressure issue resolved...
Stay NA for playing with a 100 shot, if I want to get nasty with the 200, throw the switch and I am good to go w/ 200.
Awesome flexibility...now if I can only get my fuel pressure issue resolved...
Originally Posted by Robert56
300rwhp dry shot is a cake walk, as long as starting nozzles postion is good, all fueling is automatic, as well as timing pull, all with stock pcm. Now with a less than good location then you have to get creative with the tune. What EFI Live does with a switch, HP Tuner has been doing all along automatically, ie: no sw to forget. Either way though, yes a 300rwhp shot is very doable with the stock MAF and PCM. I plan on seeing if there is real world limit to size shot we can do with a dry, without an aftermarket tuner program. I think it will be more of an overall hp limit, rather than a specific dry hp rating ie: MAF Freq limits.
Robert
Robert
And we are talking about 300 to the wheels.
Gawd you EFI guys are sensitive. All I was saying is that a dry can be set-up on HP Tuner without a toggle. Yes, it is more user friendly using the toggle 12v or a sw in EFI live. My only point was HPT dosen't require a toggle, would it be nice if it did, well sure it would. You know there are may guys running the HP Tuner, so including this info is a benifit to some. I was not, and I repeat, WAS NOT saying one was better than the other, just different.
Robert
Robert
Originally Posted by ATVracr
Jeff/Ash was saying we did it with out the MAF and without the EFI live tables.
And we are talking about 300 to the wheels.
And we are talking about 300 to the wheels.
FYI with out the tables the 300 extra hp worth of fuel on a big tire car = no burnout
Originally Posted by ShiznityZ28
Didn't you read what he said its a cake walk .LOL i guess it would be if you didn't need to do a burnout
FYI with out the tables the 300 extra hp worth of fuel on a big tire car = no burnout
FYI with out the tables the 300 extra hp worth of fuel on a big tire car = no burnout
That and the throttle transition, was FUBAR !
Just turn the 1st stage on in the burnout box
Here is another option for you non MAF guys:
If ya want 15% more fuel, just dial the Coolant temp to 230* using a potentiometer and have 15% more fuel, and its an upward ramp. It also changes spark, heres the table.
Spark:
From 131F to 185F your spark stays the same with 0 retard.
194F -0.5*
203F -1.0*
212F -1.5*
221F -2.0*
230F -4.0*
239F -5.0*
248F -5.0*
257F -5.0*
266F -8.0*
275F -8.0*
284F -9.0*
_____________________________________
Fuel:
From 140F to 212F your fueling stays the same with 0% added fuel.
221F +10.0%
230F +15.2%
239F +17.7%
248F +20.0%
257F +25.0%
266F +30.2%
275F +40.0%
284F +50.0%
You could set this up to trigger when you want with a ws.
If ya want 15% more fuel, just dial the Coolant temp to 230* using a potentiometer and have 15% more fuel, and its an upward ramp. It also changes spark, heres the table.
Spark:
From 131F to 185F your spark stays the same with 0 retard.
194F -0.5*
203F -1.0*
212F -1.5*
221F -2.0*
230F -4.0*
239F -5.0*
248F -5.0*
257F -5.0*
266F -8.0*
275F -8.0*
284F -9.0*
_____________________________________
Fuel:
From 140F to 212F your fueling stays the same with 0% added fuel.
221F +10.0%
230F +15.2%
239F +17.7%
248F +20.0%
257F +25.0%
266F +30.2%
275F +40.0%
284F +50.0%
You could set this up to trigger when you want with a ws.
Originally Posted by Robert56
Here is another option for you non MAF guys:
If ya want 15% more fuel, just dial the Coolant temp to 230* using a potentiometer and have 15% more fuel, and its an upward ramp. It also changes spark, heres the table.
Spark:
From 131F to 185F your spark stays the same with 0 retard.
194F -0.5*
203F -1.0*
212F -1.5*
221F -2.0*
230F -4.0*
239F -5.0*
248F -5.0*
257F -5.0*
266F -8.0*
275F -8.0*
284F -9.0*
_____________________________________
Fuel:
From 140F to 212F your fueling stays the same with 0% added fuel.
221F +10.0%
230F +15.2%
239F +17.7%
248F +20.0%
257F +25.0%
266F +30.2%
275F +40.0%
284F +50.0%
You could set this up to trigger when you want with a ws.
If ya want 15% more fuel, just dial the Coolant temp to 230* using a potentiometer and have 15% more fuel, and its an upward ramp. It also changes spark, heres the table.
Spark:
From 131F to 185F your spark stays the same with 0 retard.
194F -0.5*
203F -1.0*
212F -1.5*
221F -2.0*
230F -4.0*
239F -5.0*
248F -5.0*
257F -5.0*
266F -8.0*
275F -8.0*
284F -9.0*
_____________________________________
Fuel:
From 140F to 212F your fueling stays the same with 0% added fuel.
221F +10.0%
230F +15.2%
239F +17.7%
248F +20.0%
257F +25.0%
266F +30.2%
275F +40.0%
284F +50.0%
You could set this up to trigger when you want with a ws.
Then when your slide/rotary **** wears out and you don't have a laptop plugged in your screwed...
Last edited by Lythropus; Jun 4, 2007 at 01:58 PM.
Originally Posted by Lythropus
That's some seriously ghetto half assed **** right there^^^
Then when your slide/rotary **** wears out and you don't have a laptop plugged in your screwed...
Then when your slide/rotary **** wears out and you don't have a laptop plugged in your screwed...
Furthermore, what the hell do you think the old style pill window switches are about? The pill is just a resistor, which can be changed to have a pot installed, then you can dial in exactly what rpm you want, rather than a set value resistor, wake up and smell the nitrous. This style of tuning has been around for years.
Boy a tough bunch today.
Robert
Originally Posted by Black02SS
I don't think you understand the point of the custom OS for N20. It is to be able to run a dry system without a MAF. You don't have to rely on other tables or setting up anything different to have a N20/Motor tune. You flip the switch and essentially you have two different WOT tunes to use. It is a really nice feature which is why Granny has been requesting it from HPT.
Yes the HPT can be a little bit confusing for some to set-up for a dry hit, however, once set-up the two tunes are actually the same tune, you just access different areas of the tables, or unused tables when spraying (depending on how you choose to do it). Many, many are running HPT, so this info should allways be included in these talks.
I am not aligned with any company, nor am I sponsered by any company. As a matter of fact, I have passed on more than a few offers to be sponsored, and also have passed being re-employed in the n2o field. I did this so my opinions and insight would not seem biased.
Some don't even have a tuner program, but maybe a logger, that's why I give non tuner praogram options like the above "Ghetto" idea, which also works.
Now I have a question for you to add your knowledge/insight. What benifits do you see going SD and running a dry hit that way? over just running with the MAF? This is aimed at us average guys that still run a MAF tune.
Robert
A potentiometer is a mechanical resistor as opposed to an electrical resistor, there's a huge difference...I'm not even going to start about that...
Who is running that set-up? And why would they use a "pot" to up fuel and retard spark? Why won't he just tune it? Does that value affect WOT only? Even if someone did wire that up how would you be absolutely sure you're at 284 degrees and why would you even chance something like that? It could be done in a tune more precisely and more reliable which to me is safer.
So here's the scenario (no dyno queen stuff), I'm at the track with my handy "pot," and I obviously don't have a laptop because then I would just tune it and log my runs.?.?.? I reach over and guestimate my 284 degree mark on my "pot" and say let's let her rip? I just don't see it... I guess i'm just one of those guys that if i don't have the money to do it right, I'm not going to do it...
Who is running that set-up? And why would they use a "pot" to up fuel and retard spark? Why won't he just tune it? Does that value affect WOT only? Even if someone did wire that up how would you be absolutely sure you're at 284 degrees and why would you even chance something like that? It could be done in a tune more precisely and more reliable which to me is safer.
So here's the scenario (no dyno queen stuff), I'm at the track with my handy "pot," and I obviously don't have a laptop because then I would just tune it and log my runs.?.?.? I reach over and guestimate my 284 degree mark on my "pot" and say let's let her rip? I just don't see it... I guess i'm just one of those guys that if i don't have the money to do it right, I'm not going to do it...
Last edited by Lythropus; Jun 4, 2007 at 08:43 PM.