Thinking about upgrading to a two stage.

I already have an extra fuel solenoid that I cannot sell so instead I think I am going to put it to use. What else do I need besides another nitrous solenoid to make this work. If someone could make me a detailed list I would greatly appreciate it.

Also, how would I activate the 2nd stage and how would I retard the timing for the second stage.

Thanks guys.

 

BTW, I am also thinking about getting a stand alone fuel system for the nitrous kit.

 

Well...youll need two sets of noids for each stage obviously. You can use one dry stage and one wet if you wanted too as long as your fuel is up to par for the dry with good injectors as well as a pump. For the wet your only concerned abut the pump.

In the old days we used to use two window switches to control each stage or maybe a window switch and a time delay depending on what exactly you were trying to do with it.

If its a street car I always recomend doing both stages based on RPM. Such as one stage 100 at 3000 rpm and another stage 100 at 4900 or so.

For a drag car you may do better controlling activation by time for traction purposes.

Now a days they have all kinds of fancy controllers. My favorite is the FJO two stage mini controller. Its cheap and VERY versatile. You can do either rpm based or time based.

Nitro Dave at the Nitrous Outlet sells them

Harris Speed Works and Dynotune both have great stuff as well with various configurations. It all depends on what you ant.

So you basically need:
1) two sets of noids for each stage
2) a way to T-off the fuel and nitrous and extra lines to go from the noids to each nozzle. Anyone of the nitrous sponsors will be able to give you prices on the extra fittings and lines when you get the other things
3) a means of controlling both sets of noids. Preferably one of the fancy new controllers such as the FJO mini dual stage controller

Thats pretty much it.

Dual stage is THE WAY to go to get the most HP from your rngine without hurting it.

 

Thanks I really appreciate that list. I have a Mallory 685 right now controlling the single stage that I have on the car (window switch, timing retarder, and two step). If I do put on a second stage I would like to either put that FJO controller on the car or something like the BMN (I think) window switch that has a 1st gear lockout and set it at around 4900.

I'm still trying to figure out what I am going to do about the timing retard situation. I was thinking about just retarding the timing for my 1st stage through a tune then doing the additional retarding through the Mallory.

As far as fuel goes, like I said I plan on running a stand alone fuel system so if I did do that I'm sure one of the systems could handle both stages.

 

BTW, both stages are going to be wet. I have a plate in the system now and I'm going to leave that and add a shark nozzle to the inlet tube.

 

http://www.nitrousoutlet.com/catalog...product_id=964

Is this the window switch you are talking about?? So I can have a gearlockout on both window switches???

 

That window swith will work just fine.

And one other thing about the dual stage and timing. If you set it it so the shots are near the same size and space the shots out in the rpm range correctly...youll only need to pull timing once.

The TQ line is what you are looking at for retarding timing since it is a direct measure of cylinder pressure. So if you hit the car with a 100 shot at say 3200 rpm and the Tq clims to say 575 ft/lbs you can retard the timing for that amount...maybe pull 2-3 degrees...not much. Then the rpms climb...but tq begins to fall quickly with rpm due to the nature of nitrous until it reaches your second stage rpm activation point at say 5000 rpm. By 5000 rpm the TQ is down to probably 500 rwtq right before the second stage activates. The engine is ready to have more timing back at that point....or more nitrous. So we give it more nitrous....and TQ then shoots up again to say....610 rwtq. The timing requirements are going to be nearly the same to cover both peaks. So just retard timing once with the duals stage.

Taking that approach is the safest simplist path. When you dyno....keep the TQ peaks relatively the SAME PEAK number. IOW dont have the first stage come one and make 700 ft lbs and then die off rapidly and hit it with a tiny second stage so that TQ is 575. And Vice versa...dont hit the first stage with a 50 shot and the second stage with a 150. The second stage TQ would be much higher than first and make things less manageable from a driving and tuning standpoint

You want a nice avg TQ across the rpm range. Guys like Robert even throw a third satge in there and then decrease the shot of each so there is three tq peaks thru the engine rpm range.

With three Tq peaks you can barely feel each stage coming on as they hey hit. And if the shot sizes and rpms are setup correctly the car feels like a roots blower car with a WIDE FLAT TQ curve...and the ngine stays happy. Why does the engine stay happy?

Take the 200 shot and hit the engine with it all at once at 3200....youll blow the tires away there is so much TQ. Its could be as much as 650-750 rwtq. Thats stressing pistons and rods with that cylinder pressure...AND timing must be pulled to cover that 750 rwtq. That might be 4-8 degrees. Then as rpm climbs TQ falls off rapidly and you would really need to start adding timing as TQ falls with rpm. Thats not too easy unless you dedicate your tune to a nitrous tune.

The total HP between the two setups will be the same...but the TQ of the single stage will reach critical levels for stock parts and be much more detonation prone which can take out forged parts as well.

The dual stage is all about Tq management. The benifits of tuning, drivability and less engine wear is readily apparent.

 

WOW. Thanks man I really appreciate all your help.

Do you have a link to the FJO controller you were talking about?

 

http://www.nitrousoutlet.com/catalog...del=84&dept=11

 

Next question, should I run one or two bottles? And, should I run a seperate supply line to each solenoid or y it and the bottles and y it again at the solenoids?

I have a electric NO2 pressure gauge mounted on one bottle now, i can't use that to monitor both bottles can I?

 

you can use one bottle. Just have one main feed line going to the front...then you will Tee it off so there are two sets of lines going out from that point. Each set will go to each set of noids.

You can use two bottle if you want too. That will help with pressure drop. Or you can even just go to a 15 lb bottle to help. If you use two bottles...I would just T them together in th back. If you had two bottles and they were Tee'd together...and both bottles where open...you can use your single gauge to monitor pressure..no matter where it is. Just have to be sure both bottles are open. The pressures will all equalize and then the gauge will be reading accurate info.

 

Thanks man, once again, I really appreciate all the help!